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Ep 122 - Betrayal: Trusting & Reclaiming Yourself



Betrayal can shatter your sense of reality, your trust in others, and even your trust in yourself. But what if that devastating pain could become the fuel for your most authentic, empowered life yet? 


Aimee welcomes Lora Cheadle (a former attorney turned betrayal recovery coach, bestselling author, and TEDx speaker) to explore the messy, nonlinear journey of healing after infidelity and broken trust. 


If you've ever been blindsided by betrayal, this episode offers a compassionate, realistic, and empowering path forward.


Lora takes us through:

  • Why shame and self-blame are common first responses to betrayal

  • The difference between forgiveness (hierarchical) and acceptance (grounded)

  • Why rebuilding trust with yourself comes before trusting anyone else

  • Why healing isn't linear and why numbing out can be a healthy survival tool

  • How to stay in a relationship after betrayal without abandoning yourself

And so much more!


Guest Bio:

Lora Cheadle, JD, CHt, is a nationally recognized betrayal recovery expert, licensed attorney, and speaker who helps high-achieving women navigate the disorienting, soul-shattering impact of infidelity and return to themselves—clear, sovereign, and whole.

 

After discovering her husband’s fifteen-year affair, Lora learned firsthand that betrayal doesn’t just break trust—it shatters your sense of reality. It fractures identity, safety, and the ability to trust your own perception. Healing required more than time or traditional therapy. It required truth, nervous system repair, legal clarity, and a profound spiritual return to self.

 

As the creator of Life Choreography® and the FLAUNT!® Framework, Lora offers a rare, fully integrated path to recovery—blending legal insight, somatic attachment work, clinical hypnotherapy, and spiritual guidance. Her work bridges the practical and the sacred, helping women not only make empowered decisions, but transform betrayal into deeper self-trust, wisdom, and personal truth.

 

Through her work, Lora helps women quiet the chaos, regulate their nervous system, and reclaim clarity, identity, and inner authority—so they can choose what comes next from a place of grounded power. Because betrayal isn’t the end of your story. It’s the moment you stop living inside someone else’s version of truth—and begin living your own.

 

Learn more at: www.LoraCheadle.com

Download your free Betrayal Recovery Guide at www.BetrayalRecoveryGuide.com


Connect with Lora Cheadle: 

Lora Cheadle, Life Choreographer FB: https://www.facebook.com/LifeChoreographer/


Connect with Aimee:

Instagram: @aimeetakaya 

Facebook: Aimee Takaya 

Learn more about Aimee Takaya, Hanna Somatic Education, and The Radiance Program at⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠www.freeyoursoma.com⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠


LISTEN WHILE READING!

A: Hey there, listener. Today's topic is a little heavy. Have you ever been through a betrayal, whether that's an infidelity or someone breaking your trust in a huge way? We're going to talk about this today. We're going to talk about what it really takes to heal and overcome the pain and the heartache of betrayal. Today, I have Lora Cheadle, a former attorney turned betrayal recovery coach bestselling author of Flaunt. Drop your cover and reveal your smart, sexy, and spiritual self. 


She's a TEDx speaker. What's really exciting about this conversation is it's not just about helping to start healing the wounds of your experience of betrayal, but actually how to use that pain as fuel to live a life that is authentic and true and maybe more passionate and real than you even knew as possible. So please stay tuned for this important conversation. 


A: Every day there is a forgetting and every moment there is the possibility of remembering. Remembering who you truly are, awakening to your body, to the inner world, to the experience of being alive. Here is where you find the beauty, the joy, and here is where you free your Soma. I'm your host, Aimee Takaya. I'm here to help you move from pain to power, from tension to expansion, and ultimately from fear to love. 


A: Hi, Lora. 


L: Hi. 


A: Nice to finally meet you. 


L: Likewise, I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. 


A: Yeah, same. I remember when I got this request for a booking, whatever, right? When I was initiated and learning about you, I was like, oh, this is a niche that I can personally relate to. I've been through some pretty intense betrayals in my life. Strangely enough, none of them, for me, were specifically about infidelity, but they touched on some really personal, horrifying experiences that I would never wish on anybody. I really feel like I get where you're coming from in terms of what it really takes to systematically go through coming back to yourself, coming back to trusting other people after something really devastating like this occurs. 


L: Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't have to be infidelity. That's just one form of it. You're right. It's just that betrayal is such a universal human experience, and it brings up so much shame, and it feels so bad that we don't talk about it. And then the more we don't tend to talk about it, the worse it is when we experience it. So it just breeds this whole cycle of shame and fear and clamping down on the body. And really, it's such an initiation. And just like what you said earlier, that pain is an incredible fuel for growth when you know how to use it. . 


A: Absolutely. And I feel like more and more the conversation that I'm noticing, kind of, somatically in the world, people are really getting less afraid to talk about shame and the way that when things happen to us or things occur in our lives, that we might feel shame because, for example, in this conversation about betrayal, it's not just someone else doing something to you. It's how we behave towards ourselves, right? And how self-betrayal can be an absolute part of why we carry so much shame about whatever it is that we are going through. 


L: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, those layers of self-betrayal judgment, it's all there. And my experience, and I can say more about this later, but around the infidelity, my first go-to was not what did you do. It's what did I do wrong? How was I not enough? 


What did I do to deserve this? And the truth of the matter is, when we're victimized, it's never about us. It's never about us, but especially as women, I think, we tend to go there first and internalize and try to make it something wrong with us. Right. 


A: Well, there's so much conditioning that we're already programmed with early on to question our self-worth and the name of buying another beauty product or whatever the whole zeitgeist puts us into. We're already set up in a really self-critical environment, I think, as women. And so it's only natural that when something like infidelity occurs, that we think it's because I wasn't beautiful enough. I wasn't doing all the right things. 


I wasn't whatever. And sometimes that might shine a really difficult light on our self-care habits and our behaviors. And maybe there's things to learn there, but at the end of the day, it's not really about any of those things why that person did that. 


L: Exactly. And that's that tension too, because things do happen for our benefit. We can always learn. We can always grow. And where is that line between the healthy self-reflection and the unhealthy? Oh my God, it was all my fault. Yeah. 


A: Well, maybe you can share a little bit of us about your personal journey and how you came to be someone who is able to guide people through overcoming betrayal. I can tell, by the way, that you're handling yourself in this conversation, that you've walked the talk or you've been down this road personally. So we'd love to hear your story. 


L: Yeah, absolutely. As you said in the intro, I'm a former corporate attorney, definitely a perfectionist. I liked things perfect. I like to get the A. I like to win the cases. I like to do everything right, which, and the reason I say that is in my mind, I thought, well, of course, I'm safe. Of course, my life is going to turn out well, because I'm doing things right. I'm taking the marriage classes. 


I'm reading the books. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm going to do it all right. So after 23 years of marriage, and I did think it was a very good marriage, we had a lot of fun together. We all, we just, we had a great marriage. I mean, of course we had problems. Everybody does, but we had a great marriage. 


I was completely devastated and blindsided to learn that he had been cheating for 15 years with five different women. Wow. Oh my God. Oh, I cannot even begin to describe how I was so gutted. I was drained. 


I felt carved out. My entire existence, you know, I look back, I had kids. I was like, this is their entire childhood. Are you telling me every Christmas wasn't real? Every holiday wasn't real 15 years, you know, 23 years of anniversaries, they're not real. I mean, what is real and who am I and how could I have not known this? Because I'm a very intuitive person. So how could I have not known any of this and how can I ever trust myself again? It was completely destabilizing in all aspects. 


A: I mean, as you're speaking this, I'm just, I can like, I can almost go to like the somatic feeling of I'm sure your whole body's trembling. It's like, my reality is not real anymore. Right. I am not, I'm nothing that I experienced was real. It like called into question everything, as you said, and that's a very terrifying place to be. 


L: It was when I found out about the the 115 year affair, I literally fell to my knees and started heaving because I needed to vomit. That's not a conscious reaction. It's not like, I fell to my knees to be dramatic. My body physically collapsed as my life had, as I knew it, had also collapsed. So no, it did not, it did not feel good at all. And then interestingly, I teach fitness classes. 


That's always been like my fun hobby. I found out maybe two hours before a fitness class, I went into this state of collapse. And then I went into this manic hyper state. I got up, I taught my fitness class. I actually had a broken toe. I taught with a broken toe. After my class, I went to the doctor, I got the X-ray on my toe. I came, it was like, I, adrenaline, total adrenaline surge. It was crazy. 


A: And that probably kept going on for a while, right? Collapse and the nervous system pattern of, you know, okay, I got to get going now. So my adrenaline kicks in and I manic and then I collapse again. Yes. 


L: Then I'd lay on the floor, literally lay on the floor in my bedroom and cry. And not that I had a perfect life before, but I was always able to manage my nervous system, especially, you know, in law, your in stressful situations. I knew how to manage myself. I knew how to go into conflict and stay grounded. 


I had two kids 22 months apart, my husband traveled extensively for work. I knew how to manage that. And this was something that was so far beyond me. I didn't know what to do. And all of the tools that I had weren't working. 


You couldn't just, I'm just going to breathe through this grief and it's all going to be better. And then I had a broken toe and I'm a mover. So I couldn't go to movement, which really is my go to activity. So stress relief, right? Yes. So it really put me into a very challenging position. 


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A: Right. And what kind of, I'm really curious, what kind of tools did you have at the time? I mean, you had the things that you weren't having access to like the exercise. Did you have a therapist? Did you have someone that you could confide in? Did you talk to your friends? 


L: Yes, and I have a very strong family. I've got some very strong friends. However, it's tough when it's a situation like this. Let me back up a bit. Okay. When I first found out about the first couple of infidelities, it was like, and no, we're done. You know what I mean? No, no, no, no, no. When I found out there were five of them, I had the sensation that something is deeply wrong. 


I am very curious and I need to figure out what's going on. When I would talk to a lot of friends and family member, they were very stuck in that you get him out of there, you're done. This is over. But inside I kept thinking, I'm not sure if it's over because five women for 15 years, that doesn't even make sense to me. I feel like there's something more to the story and I'm not done because I want to figure out what's going on. 


A: So that's the investigator in you, right? 


L: Totally, totally. So there was some, you know, conflict around that when people like just leave, just get him out of there, you get out of there. And it was like, yeah, but wait a minute. 


Yeah, but wait a minute. Because we did have 23 years worth of a really good marriage and we had a family together and we had a life together. And I wasn't really, I wasn't committed to staying, but I also wasn't ready to leave yet. I was really getting curious. So I could have conversations with them. 


But I also found that I had to very much protect my boundaries. I'm not down for you to bash him. I need support for me. It's not about just bashing him. 


Right. So yes, I had support of family and friends, but it wasn't the best. I did see a therapist. 


The first therapist that I saw was not trauma aware or trauma informed. Yeah. So that actually triggered me a little bit more. And seeing her was not a healthy thing. And it took a while to find somebody who was trauma informed who could sit with me and guide me through the trauma. Beautiful. 


A: And did you use techniques like EMDR or was there other approaches that people took? 


L: Yeah, yeah, I did some EMDR, not early on. I am a hypnotherapist. This is so interesting. Early on, I had recorded a PTSD hypnosis. I used my own PTSD hypnosis and that was helpful. Yeah. 


Yeah. I did a lot of meditating. I did a lot of journaling. Journaling for me was huge. And I went into my spirituality. Like I said earlier, I'm intuitive. 


I channel and I would just sit and I would channel and I would journal. And I don't know if you or listeners have ever heard of an Esther, Esther Hicks, Abraham Hicks. Yes. 


Yes. I would listen to YouTube's of her just talking and her voice and that channeling. I didn't matter what it was about. It would just call me down. I would even fall asleep listening to her. Yeah. Yeah. 


A: Wow. So it sounds like you really did have, you know, having already been someone who's interested in healing for some period of time in a trained hypnotherapist. It sounds like you did have eventually some really great avenues for your own healing that had been, the foundation had been laid previously, you know, before you'd ever knew you would need it for something like this. Yes. Yeah. 


L: Yes. And I want to be clear too. I had a lot of tools early on. They only work a little bit because you're so dysregulated. You're so traumatized. And I think that's so important for people to hear because I know for me, sometimes I think I'm a total failure at this. It's not working. I'm a failure. It's not that it's not working. It's that your body needs that time. We don't just go, bam, tool healed. Good. Let's go have lunch. Yeah. 


A: No. And our bodies take the time they take. And, you know, often when, you know, things come up like this, you know, and speaking from my own experience, the, you know, the devastating thing that happened early on in my marriage, which I'm not going to go into right now, but it triggered early childhood patterns of pain for me. It triggered old wounds of betrayal and, you know, things that I had gone through or witnessed my parents going through, you know, all my stuff came up. And so that was part of what was going on in my body. It wasn't just the betrayal and the rage and the grief of what was going on, but all the things that was triggering in me. And so, you know, at this point, I was still in my somatic educator training when this, when this event occurred in my life. 


And I had a lot of support. But as you said, in the beginning, while your body's still processing, what's coming up, there's no way around the feeling, the feeling and the intensity of the feeling is just what is needed to occur. Now, it's also normal for people to feel a lot and then numb out and then feel a lot and then numb out. And I think that, you know, there's been a lot of kind of, I don't know if I want to say like, shit talking, dissociation or like acting like dissociation as a character flaw. I, you know, when I went through that period, I really started to see, you know, a healthy level of dissociation as my friend, because it helped me recover from the depth of what I was experiencing. Emotionally, that simply wasn't sustainable for my body to go through all the time. So, numbing out, you know, whatever, scrolling on my phone for a while, binge watching a TV show, like whatever it was that I might have like labeled a negative behavior before under this circumstance, I was like, this is part of how I'm surviving right now. And God bless the, that I have access to this. Yes. 


L: And I love that you said that because it's true. It's, we all, not all of us, but I think most of us do feel like healing. I'm going to elevate. 


I'm going from point A to point B. I'm getting better. And then we start shaming ourselves and guilting ourselves. But no, sometimes we just need to stop because no, the body can't take it. The mind can't take it. It's numb out, numb out. All you need to numb out. Just what I like to tell my people is, have those parameters for when you need to stop. You know, if you go because sometimes obsessive thoughts, we can't stop those obsessive thoughts. And the more we try to stop them, the worse it gets. So sometimes I'll even tell, yeah, I'll even tell my people like, set a timer on your phone, go obsess and be as unhealthy as you need to. But when that timer goes off, go take a walk. Just do something to pattern interrupt. Totally. 


A: Yeah. And you know, it's, it's great to hear you kind of talk about that investigative part of you that when you kind of got the bigger picture, you were like, wait, there's even a bigger picture behind this picture. 


I want to know what that is. And that you were in that sort of nuanced space about this issue, I think is, you know, as like a, a fellow healer, coach person, I think that being able to experience the nuanced space that a lot of people experience is super important for being able to understand why people stay in marriages where there's been betrayal or infidelity, why people don't just cut certain people out of their lives and react really strongly when certain things happen, right? That is complicated. 


And we did, for many of us, it's not black and white, you know, so I'd love to hear you say a little bit more, like, you know, maybe as a continuation of the story or how, how did you work with that nuanced space in yourself? Yeah. 


L: And that's exactly it. It's a nuance. It's, my husband, spoiler alert, we ended up staying together. It has been seven years since this came out. And you know what? It's a continued journey. 


It's a continued work in progress. What I knew about him is he has a severe trauma background. He was in foster care. He was severely abused, neglected, all of that stuff. Now, growing up in the 70s that he did, trauma wasn't a big thing. It was get over it, you know, just deal with it. 


And that was always his belief. Yeah, I had a horrible childhood, but I'm over it. Didn't impact me. 


I'm an adult now. It does impact you. You know, it does. So I knew that about him. I knew he had kind of shut down that whole part of himself. And that was also part of the reason that I was curious about this, because of what I did know about trauma and life. 


And it really did make me curious. Also, I did know that we had a good relationship. And I had enough sense of self to know I was doing things well. 


Of course, I made mistakes. Of course I could grow. But I also knew I was a healthy, happy, whole, worthwhile person. 


I knew that I didn't deserve this deserve an air quotes. So that really did. It really helped me. It helped me from was I victimized? 


Yes. But am I going to play the role of the victim? No, I'm not. Let me look at myself. 


Let me look at him. Let me understand trauma better. Let me heal these generational wounds. I've got kids. I kind of want this to stop with me. 


I don't want to pass this on to them. So it really to me opened up this whole space of what else might be possible? Yeah, yeah. And I think the biggest part is it's not me driving the train. It's not me saying to him, honey, let's look at your trauma now. 


Let's make this all a happy ending. It was me saying, I'm figuring this out for me. You need to figure it out for you. 


If we end up coming together, that's great. And he had that exact same belief. He was like, Oh, I've never dealt with my stuff. This is a huge manifestation of my stuff. This is not who I am. 


This is not who I want to be. And I'm going to fix myself too. And the other same thing, if we stay together, great. If we don't, that's fine too. 


A: Yeah, I mean, I think what you've said about you leading with your energy and making it about you is how it has to be done because we can't make anybody else change or grow or do the work. We can only show up and do what we can for ourselves. And it's actually that energy that entices or encourages or supports others by your example. And that's the way it works at the end of the day. 


And so when you're working with clients or when you work with, I know you have a community actually of people that receive support around these issues together, which I think is beautiful. When people are stuck in that place of, Oh, I want to fix him. I want to make him, how do you, how do you get through to somebody who's really fixated on that? Right. 


L: It's so hard. It's so hard. Because I think we've all been there to a certain extent too. It's, yeah, we all want to fix other people. A couple of things that I say is first of all, we do see other people more clearly than we see ourselves oftentimes. And you might see something in somebody, but it's not up to you to fix them. And I think, first off, just having that knowledge, I do see something clearly, but it's not up to me. I think that makes it a little bit easier to let go of. 


A: Yes, yes, because it affirms that what they're experiencing is real. They may be able to understand this person and their pattern and see the way forward, right? And that's valid. At the same time, it, even if they had all of the perfect solutions, it's, it's not their path to walk, right? 


L: No, no. And then alluding to what you said earlier, I love dance. You know, like I said, I've always teach fitness. I love movement. I love dance. I always liken it to dancing with somebody else. If you are dancing a waltz together and all of a sudden you change it to a foxtrot, you can change it. 


You change you. Either the other person is going to start mirroring you and foxtrotting as well, because the waltz doesn't work or they're going to get frustrated and walk away. So yes, you can be the leader, but by being the leader, it means you change first. You don't tell them, Hey, you start leading a foxtrot. Hey, you, you, you, you, you start leading a foxtrot. It's me. I change and maybe they'll follow and maybe they won't. 


A: Yeah, that's a really great analogy. I very much relate to that. Oh, I want to ask another question about, you know, when, when I was going through all this stuff with my husband our first year of marriage, right? There was kind of, and it was hard to, he went and saw a couple therapists and I'm not even sure of like the quality of them because like one of them, I was just kind of like, I don't know if that's like actually good advice, but basically he had this like idea that, that once I had forgiven him, that I should basically be over it and it should not come up again. And I tried to keep explaining to him that forgiveness is a journey. 


And based on what we're doing with our lives, we're continuing to be together, we're continuing to live together. Some of these issues are bound to kind of circle back and come up, not just for me, but for him too. Because he experienced his own betrayal in this really kind of specific situation, right? That that's not something that's possible. So even when you've forgiven someone, you have to keep forgiving them. 


You have to keep working through the upsets that show up. It's a living thing forgiveness. It's not a button you push, right? Yes. And what would you say about that in terms of like people in their forgiveness process and they go through maybe even years after what's happened, bouts of rage, bouts of anxiety, right? Can you speak a little about that? 


L: Absolutely. First of all, I don't necessarily even believe in forgiveness. Oh. Yeah. And here's why. I feel like forgiveness is hierarchical. And I don't really put myself above anybody. I don't feel like I can grant forgiveness. To me, it's a little fairy godmothery. 


You know what I mean? Like I don't have that power to forgive you. You can forgive yourself. 


What I'm big on is acceptance. I can accept that you did this. I can accept that you did this to me. 


I can accept that. And then that way, because it is a journey, you're a hundred percent right, it is a journey. So that way as we're along the journey, something comes up, something in my body triggers because it remembers a child to trauma. 


I have to now find more acceptance for that in that moment. Maybe my partner does something that is just jerky and inconsiderate. It's not tied to the original infidelity, but it sure does open that scab again. So now I have to find another level of forgiveness that he is not perfect. 


I have to find forgiveness or acceptance instead of forgiveness that he is not perfect, that I am still being triggered, that my body still remembers. So to me, when I roll with acceptance, it's another thing to accept. It's another thing to accept. It's another thing to accept. I feel better in my body and in my head. And I also don't tend to be over you with forgiveness. 


A: You know, I really love that because I have to say, for a while, forgiveness felt like a really fucking tall order. It did because it was like, you know, acceptance. It was like, OK, acceptance might actually be more manageable because I couldn't feel like this, you know, because it is. And I would say that when I think of like true, the true sensation of like forgiveness, to me, I'm almost have the experience of it being like beyond me. It's like mercy. It's like an act of spirit. 


It's not a human thing. It's like a spiritual experience to feel this loving kindness towards someone who wronged you. You know what I mean? 


So I get what you're saying about it being like a lot more human to be able to be accepting of ourselves and others and accept our reality or accept our situation versus kind of trying to to draw on this like sort of magnanimous, like spiritual force that's not really even in our full control. You know? Yeah. Yeah. 


Oh, the other thing I wanted to ask in kind of the same line of this. With regards to apologies, right? Like, where do you stand on the idea of an apology? Because I'll just say one of the biggest like fights within the fights of like this whole thing was like after like what occurred occurred with my husband, it took him a whole month to apologize to me. And that was like a talking point for like our arguments for like two years because I was really upset about that. I was really upset because I wanted him to immediately see that he had done something wrong and to be apologizing profusely. Like that's what my body wanted. I wanted to see groveling pretty much because I was so fricking pissed. Right? Yeah. 


That was not something that his nervous system was even capable of doing for the first month because he was so frozen about what had happened. And I took that really personally. So then, you know, there was this again, this kind of conversation. We're both really philosophical, so about forgiveness. We'd also like have all these like intense conversations about apologies. Right? What do you have to say about like a apologetic, you know, situation versus when people do that and it's not sincere and all that stuff. Yeah. 


L: Again, nuance, you know, nuance is such a word because like in my marriage, my husband was beaten by his mom and one of the ways that she would beat him is you will apologize, you will apologize. So he's like, I will never apologize for anything because it's so tied to that memory. And we all have those unique human experiences. 


And it sounds like same thing. There was a lot of underlying stuff going on for you guys. That said, I do think apologies are important if they are sincere. I think accountability is even more important than an apology because I do think it's easy to say, I'm so sorry I called you, you know, whatever it is, big nose, Bob. So sorry I did that, but ha, ha, ha, big nose, Bob. 


You know what I mean? Like that, that doesn't mean anything. So I do think it's important, especially if the some people don't care about them. But if your partner cares about an apology, it is important. 


It is important to find that within yourself. And what some people get wrong is an apology isn't saying I did something wrong or I am bad, right? It's saying I care about you. And if you and your body need that apology, I will 100% give that to you because I'm sorry your body feels this way. 


I'm sorry your heart feels this way. Yes, yes. Yeah, now we can have a conversation about what was going on. I didn't intend on hurting you. I didn't mean on let's talk about this. What does this mean? But I'm sorry you feel this way. 


A: Right, you know, that was actually part of our dialogue. And, you know, I think the really hard part was that in his perception with the literal thing that occurred, he had his own like very clear justification for it that made it seem like he had done nothing wrong. 


And I basically and my whole family was like overreacting, right? And that was his like viewpoint for a while. And so it made it pretty impossible for him to apologize. And so when I would have these arguments, I would basically be like, I'm not trying to get you like obviously, I think what you did was wrong. 


And I think you should apologize for it. But it's more about the impact it had. The impact is having on me and our relationship and you taking responsibility for some of that impact, you know, because I'm sitting in front of you telling you this is the impact of that. Can you be apologetic or feel something about the impact of this? Or, you know, and I didn't say this at the time, like, are we still stuck in like our victim zone where we don't see the impact and we're not taking responsibility for things, right? 


L: Right, right. I often tell my people to try to separate like that, the facts from the feelings because the facts is what we get stuck in on sometimes. But I didn't mean that, but I didn't say that, but I didn't do. It doesn't really matter in so many cases. The facts don't matter. What matters is those feelings, the impact. Apologize for the impact. Feel some empathy for the impact. 


Get curious about the impact. If you truly don't understand why an apology is necessary, it's a signal that you need to ask more questions. I don't understand why you're wanting an apology from me. 


Can you share more about what you're feeling and what this experience is like for you because I care about you and I want to understand and I'm sorry it's creating an impact. I sincerely want to know. 


A: Right, right. And, you know, I'm curious with the support that you give to victims of betrayal, right? How often is the betray betrayer, right, willing to do something seeking help? 


Do you think that there's a niche out there for people who are betrayers? Yeah, can get help. You know, maybe that's not your niche, but do you feel like that's something that they have support to? Because I think it's so easy for us to want to like go around the person who has been victimized and support them. 


But then like basically, you know, just tell the betrayer to like f off. But like they probably need support too, because it's it's devastating their life as well, even if they're the cause of it. Right. 


L: Yes, absolutely. And I do work with betrayers. Oh, I do. I do. And I do work with couples too, because it's a betrayal is a systemic thing. It doesn't just happen to you. It happens to the ecosystem, to the family, to the couple. 


It and you're absolutely right. It is devastating for the betrayer. And what is so hard is hurt people hurt people. The betrayer hurt you because they've been hurt. 


They need just as much and sometimes even more compassion, love, support. And that's really hard because we want to we want to be mad at them. We want to be angry at them. We want to judge them. 


We want them to pay for their mistake. Oh, yeah. Remember that phase? Yeah. 


Oh, yeah. So, yeah, it's really hard and they do need support. And what I will say about that is the men and couples that I've worked with where the men are really ready, where they're like, I have lived my whole life in pain. 


I have never been able to process my guilt, my shame. My it is such a huge relief and they become the best people and the best partners because they've lived the opposite. And I'm just generally it's men who are the betrayer and the people that I work with. The ones who are not willing to come to the party, they're not willing to come to the party. It's like they're either all in or they're not. There is rarely anybody in the middle. 


A: Yeah, I really get that. You know, and it can take a person or in this case, you know, a man, some time to come around to right there may be there in their own somatic process where there's so much shame that's coming up that they just block it all out and they're not available for it. You know, and that, you know, I have to say in my story, like just even though you guys don't know all the details of it, my husband after that month, you know, made his first apology to me. Unfortunately, I was still so pissed about him taking a month to do it that I carried around and upset about that for a while. 


Right. But then a year later, he actually apologized to other people, right, about it. And there was this but I but it was interesting just like kind of looking back on it because he had his own process that he was in and his own timeline that, you know, at the time and I have to just say part of my like craziness during this time that it was all happening like while I was seven months pregnant and then postpartum. So there's other things that contribute to our responses being what they are, you know, whatever else is going on in our lives. And the same thing for him, like he was becoming a father for the first time, you know, and so he was on his own journey and he was having to process this event alongside all this other stuff that he was already dealing with, you know. And so when I kind of look back on it now that it's been like over seven years, you know, since this occurred, I can really see that I was trying to rush him because I was impatient to feel better, even though I was I was in my own process too. And I couldn't like make it better, but I really wanted him to, you know. So I just want to say like it's really human for us to be in a hurry about something like like this because it's so physically and emotionally painful. But then it takes the time it takes for both people involved, right? 


L: Yeah, yeah. And I love that you said that because early on it wasn't like my husband said, oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry I hurt you, dear. You know, it was like, because you're a bitch and you made me do this and you never validated me. 


And it was very ugly at the beginning. Yeah. And he did move out. He moved out for about three months. And then was that breaking point? Oh, my God, this had nothing to do with you. I am broken. 


I am awful. And yes, there's ups and downs. And I mean, even still seven years later, there are moments too where he collapses. And there are moments where something will happen and I will collapse. It's never as low as it was before. It's never as long as it was before. But yeah, it's part of that process. 


And you had mentioned this earlier too. He goes to therapy weekly. He probably always will. And yet there are times where he's like, I got to step away. I things need to gel. 


I have to stop for a month or so and things need to gel. And it's all a process. It's and there'll be times where I'm elevating and there's times where he's elevating and it's messy and that's OK. Totally. 


A: I think that you're giving a very kind of raw and realistic perspective to people, which I really appreciate because I think that is is what can people people can really understand how it's a long term process. And it's a process of growth. Right. 


Yeah. And what do you have to say about rebuilding trust? Because you've had to do that with your husband. 


You have to trust probably that he's not texting people or going off when he says he's going to the grocery store and doing something else. How has that process been? Yeah. 


L: And I'm so glad you asked that. Rebuilding trust is rebuilding trust within yourself. And when you trust yourself implicitly, then you can ascertain whether somebody else is trustworthy. And this might sound weird, but there's ways where my husband is very trustworthy. 


There's ways where he's not trustworthy. And I have that discernment within myself. I trust my intuition. I trust my knowing. I trust myself. And what I mean, he is very trustworthy when it comes to other women now. 


I don't have a problem with that, but I my body is my barometer where he is not trustworthy is he has a back. He has that trauma in background, trauma in background, background in trauma. He still has a lot of anger that comes up from that. He still can fall into dysregulation very quickly. I know he is not a trustworthy person in that way because he still has that damage. But I can honor that he still has that trauma and that he can get he can get dysregulated really quickly. So I'm not going to trust him to be the anchor in the relationship, if that makes sense, that makes a lot of sense. 


A: Yeah. And I think it's I think it's great for you to just honestly speak that and say that because it's really painful to the other person when their partner wants them to be something they're not capable of being. Yeah, it's very painful because it's like loving someone but being like, but I want you to change this, this and this and all these fundamental things that I want you to show up totally differently. It's like, you don't love me. You love something and that's not who I am. Right. 


So that you can love someone who and also respect that they're not going to be that anchor in the relationship. Right. How do you feel about that? I'm guessing falling on you as the partner. You know, have you accepted that role? 


L: You know, it's a process. I mean, he has complex PTSD. I do have to remind myself of that because sometimes I'll be like, are you kidding? You know what I mean? 


A car door slammed in the parking lot in your psycho. It is not a problem. But then I have to remind myself he has CPTSD. This is who he is. This is his nervous system. 


His nervous system is frayed and I have to accept that. Is it frustrating sometimes? You bet it's frustrating sometimes. 


You know, having a toddler is frustrating sometimes. It's just, but I also know I am not a victim here. I am choosing to be in a relationship with somebody who has PTSD. That's my choice. And if I choose it, I can allow myself frustration, but I have to be OK with it. And at any time where I'm like, you know what, I don't want this, I can leave. 


A: Yeah, no, I mean, it sounds very grounded. I'm really appreciating listening to, you know, you share this perspective. I think it's medicine for a lot of people because, you know, maybe it's not CPTSD. Maybe it's their spouse just got diagnosed with autism or ADHD. And now like everything, all these things are making sense about their behaviors that didn't make sense before, you know, and how can we accept who this person really is and find a way to be in a relationship that functions to the degree that it functions and be able to choose the the reality that we're in versus resent and deny and, you know, try to change someone who's not. That's not what they're here to be. 


L: Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And again, it is a fine line. It's not like. I mean, you can choose whatever life you want. You can choose whatever reality. I'm not stuck. 


I'm not committed to staying no matter what. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's I am a grounded person. 


I have regulated myself. I have the higher skill set so I can do this. So in a way, it's a good partnership. But I am under no illusion. It's not like this is the best that I can get. 


And it's it's nothing like that. It's that it works and it works for now. And as long as it works, I'm going to be with it because I'm choosing it. 


And if I don't want to choose it or if it doesn't work, I don't have to stay in that either. But you're right. I'm not about resentment. I'm not about being a martyr. I'm not about, oh, my God, I always have to be the one that does this. This it works. And if it doesn't work, I can leave. 


A: Yeah, beautifully said. I mean, you know, I remember this conversation I had with my somatic mentor, I didn't tell her like all the things because I didn't want, you know, we were just having our session and I didn't want to just like blah, you know, but I remember telling her pieces of it about what was going on with my husband. 


Right. And, you know, in the way I framed it, I was really also expressing love for him. And her response was, wow, well, it sounds like he's going to grow so much being in this relationship with you. And at the time, I remember feeling kind of like a little irritated, but then I really sat with that and I was like, this is her inviting me to step up into what I'm doing as I'm studying somatics and becoming a somatic educator and going to be out there in the world leading. I'm going to be accepting that I'm doing that in my relationship. I didn't marry another somatic educator. I married an artist musician. Right. 


L: You know what I mean? Very different. So like, you know, what you're saying is like you were already someone who was taking the lead in certain areas with becoming a hypnotherapist in your spiritual practice. And so this situation, as you said before, was an initiation into further stepping into that leadership quality within yourself because you're not, you know, with someone who's doing that, you are that. You are the person. Right. Right. And at any point in time, I could choose a different relationship. Yes. And I know sometimes that bothers people. They're like, oh my gosh, you're not. I could any of us could at any point in time, we can choose any different relationships and that's true. 


A: It's important for people to like really recognize their autonomy and their freedom. Yes. But they don't feel trapped because you're not you're not making a choice from an empowered place if you feel like you have no other alternative. You're making it's not even a choice at that point. Right. And so what you're speaking to is people really need to choose, you know, what they're what they are doing, you know, and recognize that it to whatever degree is a choice. 


I mean, obviously, like it gets complex when we talk about abuse or other kinds of things that people have going on. Right. Right. But in your case and with a lot of your clients, it sounds like helping them discern, you know, I have I'm free to leave. Right. 


L: Yes. Yes. And also free to create whatever kind of relationship you want. Marriage, it can be so many different things. And your relationship needs to work for the two people who are in the relationship. So if you want something different, create something different. If you want to lead in a different way, lead in a different way. If if you need support, get support. If you need whatever, I mean, create the relationship that works for you. You're not a victim. Yeah. 


A: Awesome. Well, can you tell people or listeners a bit about like some of the format in which you work? I mean, you mentioned working one on one, I'm sure with couples. I know you have an online group. Can you talk a little bit about the format that you help support people in? 


L: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I work with people, couples, individuals, betrayer, betrayed one on one over Zoom. One of my favorite ways that I coach is asynchronous coaching. And that is because I think change takes place in the moment. It doesn't take place in weekly sessions. 


So what I do that is we do a walkie talkie app and I have people talk to me along the way. Oh, my God, my husband just said this. This is what I'm feeling. 


What do I do here? And we do that support along the way. And that's one of my favorite ways to support people because life happens in the moment. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's huge. That's huge because the intensity is there. It's not like a week later. Oh, my God, I was so mad last week. 


A: Right. Now, I had that. I had the Voxer app as one of those. Right. I received that a few years ago. I received Voxer support. And I just got to say, like, especially in the circumstances you're talking about, where it's real time, it's domestic, it's in their day to day life. I can just imagine how that would be a really powerful tool to literally have you in their back pocket that they can just talk to when they're waiting in their car, you know, or, you know, in the bathroom or whatever, that they can just have a little message back and forth with you. I think that's super awesome that you offer that service. 


L: Yeah, it's that would have helped me the most. And that's why I do it. I'm like, no, they're incredible. Yes. And then I've got a support group too. Again, the women in the support group support each other. We get together monthly for a group coaching. And then we also do a monthly ritual, whether it's around moon or solstice or something like that, because ritual and marking progress is so important because it's not always about where we're going. It's important to look back and see how far we've come and to honor and celebrate that growth together. Yeah. 


A: Well, again, going back to that way that will not have us for perfectionists. And we have this, you know, this desire to improve ourselves, improve ourselves. And it's like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Can we also be happy with where we're at right now and what, you know, what you said, what we've already accomplished, how far we've come. And I believe that is a super important part of change is recognizing the changes and the transformations that have already occurred that bring you to this moment, this present moment now. Right. Yeah. Yeah. 


L: So absolutely. So those are the three ways. I also do some like DIY on demand courses with video, but my favorite is the right there in your ear, in the pocket, voxer or one on one. Love it. 


A: Oh, yeah. No, it sounds like you have some really wonderful offerings and you've been able to build a community of people that can support each other. And I think that's so important because as you said, sometimes our friends and family, they're too biased, right? They love us too much. They, you know, they want to just kick that guy out or destroy that, just get rid of him, know the marriage, whatever, right? Because they care so much about us. 


They don't want to see us hurt again. You know, bring something in them. But when you have a group of, you know, people who are relative strangers or, you know, someone who's choosing a really clear, nuanced path like yourself, now we have a container where people can be supported beyond just the knee-jerk reactions. Yeah. 


L: And honestly, I also believe until you've been through it, you don't understand. Because before I was through, before I went through this, I had different beliefs. I would leave him. I would never put up with that. 


I would. And now that I've experienced it, it's like, whoa, this is a lot more complex than I ever realized. And this is, it didn't feel how I thought it would feel. And, whoa, I'm in touch with rage at a level that I have never touched before. So, yeah, you need people around you that have been through a similar experience. 


A: I love this. I'm so glad that we got to connect today. I think your work is really important in the world. And I'm so glad you could come on the show and share it with my audience. Do you have anything coming up that you want to share with people or like a freebie that you have that they can find in the show notes? 


L: Yeah, definitely. I've got a betrayal recovery guide that is amazing. It's got some somatic. It's got some meditation. It's got a bunch of different tools in it. And you can go to betrayal recovery guide dot com download that instantly. And yes, I always have monthly workshops coming up. 


So if you go to betrayal recovery guide dot com download that, then you can find out about my monthly workshops, whether it's rage release or, you know, forgiveness or anything like that. We touched on some pretty hot topics. Fantastic. 


A: Yeah. Thank you. Everybody check out the show notes, check out Laura's website. And if you're someone who's been struggling maybe silently with this issue, I encourage you to get support, find out if, you know, this recovery guide or this group might be something that would really help you because you're not alone in this. And you can turn this into something really beautiful in your life. You can turn this into a return to yourself at a much higher level. Right. Yes. Absolutely. 


L: Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. 


A: Hey there, friends. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I would love to hear your thoughts. Follow me on Instagram @Aimee Takaya and send me a DM about this episode. I'd like to thank you for being part of this Somatic Revolution. And if you'd like to support the podcast and help more people learn about somatics, consider leaving a review or a rating. 


And finally, if you'd like to have the experience of the experience of relief in your tight hips or back and learn to understand what your body is really saying to you, visit youcanfreeyorsoma.com. I can't wait to share with you what is truly possible. Bye for now. 



 
 
 

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