EP9 - Breath as a Portal: How Conscious Breathing Unlocks the Body’s Innate Intelligence
- ilagosajoan
- 6 days ago
- 29 min read
Have you ever thought about what happens when you can't hold onto those magical flow states?
In this week’s episode, Aimee sits down with Leo Marrs, a breath advocate, and entrepreneur to explore why we slip out of creative flow and what both sides of this human spectrum teach us.
This conversation will definitely shift how you think about the inevitable ebb and flow of consciousness.
Leo takes us through:
- Why breath awareness works 100% of the time as a portal to presence
- The difference between active breathing sessions and everyday breath awareness
- How he went from running nightclubs to opening breath studios
- The "meta question" technique for making big decisions
- How to trust your body's natural intelligence for decision-making
- The relationship between expansion, contraction, and universal flow
And so much more!
Today's guest hails from the wilds of Alaska to the frontiers of consciousness, Leo Marrs shares a journey shaped by raw experience, entrepreneurial fire, and spontaneous awakening.
A high school dropout turned founder of America’s first breathwork studio, Leo brings a rare fusion of somatic intelligence, street-tested wisdom, and irreverent spiritual insight. Through stories, tools, and transmissions, we'll explore what it means to be fully alive in a rapidly evolving world.
Currently working on his book The New Creator: Rise of the Mindful Artist in the New Meaning Economy as well as Ethr, an app combining breath sequences and advanced sonic architecture to help you unlock your innate capacities for healing, insight, and expanded consciousness.
Find his offers/freebies:
Free 7-Day Trial of my breathing app Ethr - www.ethr.one
Free Weekly Newsletter where I share pieces of my writing for my forthcoming book, The New Creator
Connect with Leo Mars:
Connect with Aimee:
Instagram: @aimeetakaya
Facebook: Aimee Takaya
Learn more about Aimee Takaya, Hanna Somatic Education, and The Radiance Program at www.freeyoursoma.com.
LISTEN WHILE READING!
Sarah: Hey guys, welcome back to Previa Alliance Podcast. It is Sarah
Whtney: And Whitney
Sarah: And we are so excited. So May is...
Whiney: March of Dimes month.
Sarah: Maternal mental health and we and March of Dimes are so excited to bring you guys just the core of what we call maternal mental health.
Whitney: That's right.
Sarah: We are going to be breaking down to you what is like what is postpartum depression, what is postpartum anxiety, OCD, rage, psychoses, all the things that you probably hear us talking about.
Whitney: We're really going to go a little more in detail about this and give clarification on it. But also sometimes these can overlap.
Sarah: Right. So it's not like you only have one.
Whitney: Exactly.
Sarah: And it's like when you get normally sick, right? You can have a cough and you can have chills and you can have fatigue. That's right. All the above. Hey, I've even my kids have had strep and ear infection at the same time.
Whitney: Of course. Why wouldn't they?
Sarah: So the same thing for our mental health and mom. So when we're talking about individual diagnosis that this time, if it's saying if this is resonating with you, we always want you to say, you know, this is not my fault. I'm not a failure.
No. And there is help and with time I will be well. So that's right. So don't let this make you feel like, oh my gosh, this is me and this is now what we're going to tell you what.
Whitney: Yeah. So to piggyback off of that, a diagnosis is not a character flaw. Exactly. It is not a character flaw. There's nothing that you've done to earn this or to have a label. It is to give you insight into what you're dealing with. Therefore you can start to heal from it.
Sarah: And if we don't know what it is, we can't ever take that next step.
Whitney: Correct. Well, like you mentioned, so if I'm sick with something and I think, oh, it's just the flu. I don't need to go to the doctor. But really, what if I have pneumonia?
Sarah: And then you need definitely those antibiotics.
Whitney: Yes. I need the right treatment. So that's the same thing when it comes to mental health. When we have a diagnosis, we can appropriately treat the diagnosis. Therefore we can get you better. Name it to tame it. That's right.
Sarah: So, okay guys, we're going to start with the core. What is post-partum depression? And I think also like Whitney said, this is the same thing as we talk about a flu. We talk about diabetes. We talk about stroke, heart attack in mainstream.
Mental health is something you did not cause or create. Correct. So, it is very common, unfortunately. It is the leading complication of childbirth. Yes. Lately, the numbers are showing one in three after COVID who have caused anxiety, isolation.
Whitney: OCD, I would assume, has gone up since COVID. Not that it didn't exist before then, but I think the numbers would be higher post-COVID.
Sarah: Oh, 100%. And you know, because I think it affects women so much and women in general is healthcare. That's a soapbox we can get on for a different day. That's a whole podcast on its own. It's often ignored, dismissed, or like are even just the, if you want to even just go off on a soapbox for one minute, the amount of pain control that they give for like men's procedures like vasectomies compared to what they give women for IUD placements. If you want to implant on, if you like me when we had the HSG. Oh, yeah.
Whitney: I was giving nothing. Yeah. So just in general, if like our pain is physical pain, not even emotional pain is not treated appropriately or equally, the same thing is happening to our mental health.
That's right. So let's break it down about the signs of postpartum depression. Okay. So to clarify, there is a slight difference between your baby blues and postpartum depression. So let's kind of go in that because your symptoms are going to look very similar. Identical in some cases. So baby blues, you cry very easily.
You're going to cry over little things that you can kind of logically take a step back and say, why am I crying over this? This isn't that big of a deal. Right. So to call myself out after my older daughter was born, I knocked over the cat food bowl and I burst into tears and I was sobbing in the kitchen.
Yeah. And I looked at my husband and I said, I don't know why I'm crying over this. It's not a big deal. So you recognized.
Oh, I recognize that I should not have been sobbing over dry cat food being on a tile floor. Right. Really?
Not a hard cleanup. So a baby blue moment. Very much a baby blues moment. Cry at the drop of a hat when normally that is not something that would send me over the edge. Right. That's not going to be something that I would cry, especially sob over. Now, mind you, I was maybe like five days postpartum.
Sarah: Right. So baby blues remind them if they've never heard this, when do we expect them?
Whitney: We can usually expect baby blues to really be on set, I would say three days postpartum. Sometimes moms do experience that in the hospital, especially if you've had a traumatic birth or if baby goes to nick you. Okay. However, most of the time because of the hormone crash, which that is the root of baby blues. Right. You're going to see it around maybe three to four days on set postpartum. Now, baby blues should not last any longer than two weeks.
Sarah: So two weeks. So if this onset's happening to you, this new mom, okay, we know baby blues happen. Statistics say 80, 90 percent, I would say closer to 100 percent.
Whitney: I'm going to be real and say, yeah, probably we're talking like 99, 98 percent because it's a hormone crash. There's not a way to avoid that. Or control that. Exactly. It's not like we can supplement with something to kind of ease it down like in pregnancy, you know, our hormones slowly increase. Right. We don't have a slow decrease.
We have a crash. Some moms do say that breastfeeding helped with that. Right.
A formula fed. So I can't speak to that. And I would think that that's a very individual case too. Some people say breastfeeding made it harder for them. So it just.
Sarah: I think it definitely made it harder for me.
Whitney: So, I mean, I hate to say that's very individual. I don't think breastfeeding would be a full proof way of preventing that. No.
Sarah: So baby blues is you're hitting this in that initial postpartum period. Now the hormones just explain it for us for a second.
Whitney: Okay. So think of it if you've ever seen a plane take off. So we kind of have this gradual ascending into the sky. We're taking our time, even though the plane really is going fast. It's still a gradual incline. Right. What we would like to see postpartum is that gradual descent to the ground. Right.
That's what we would like to see. That ain't real. What really happens is crash and burn. Seriously. Up in flames. And then the kerosene to the fire is sleep deprivation.
Sarah: Yes. An adjustment.
Whitney: Yes. Pain, physical pain. As I was about to say physical pain, your recovery. Now that's if you have an uncomplicated delivery. Now you throw in a traumatic delivery vaginal, throw in a stat C section, throw in a NICU stay, throw in hemorrhaging, throw in tear clamps.
Speaker 3: Throw in help syndrome. All of these different things can absolutely impact and influence our postpartum timeframe. So that being said, again, going back to baby blues, you may find yourself crying very easily over stuff that you're like, I don't normally cry over this. This really is not that big of a deal. But here I am sobbing.
Whitney: That should resolve at about two weeks postpartum. Okay. Now, when we get out of that two week timeframe and you still find yourself crying easily, maybe not over small things like the cat food getting spilled on the floor, but you just find yourself crying easily. Maybe you have self deprecating thoughts of I'm not meant to be a mom or my baby deserves better than me. Maybe I need to make an adoption plan for my baby because I'm just not cut out for this. And we do not have a tangible reason to do that. Now, if you have a mom who is homeless and she doesn't have the finances and she can legitimately say, I don't have the means to care for my child, different ball game.
Sarah: Yeah, we're not talking about different ball game. Okay. To those mamas, there are resources. Let me just say that. And I'm not saying don't make adoption plans. I'm saying check out your resources before you make a permanent choice. Right. Yeah.
So for those mamas, if you are listening, there are resources out there for you. Yeah. Let me just throw that out there. But to go back to that postpartum depression, we're looking at I'm not cut out for this. I'm not good enough. I'm, I can't do this. Why did I think I could do this? This is, I went through all this just for my baby to be born to a mom that's incapable. Mm.
Whitney: So we're going to have some self deprecating thoughts. Yes. A lot of self negativity. And so we're going to have that I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy enough. My baby deserves better.
There's crying spells coming on. You may notice too, and this is typical for depression anyway. But if you notice that you are eating all the time or not eating at all, and it is not based on the baby's behavior.
Okay. I know it can be hard to eat in the newborns. But this is if you're choosing not to eat at all. Like you just don't have an appetite kind of thing.
Sarah: It's not like you running around with your
Whitney: toddler, your baby strapped, and you're like, I was three o'clock and I haven't eaten yet. This is like there's, you're capable able the foods in front of you. Correct. It's a granola bar that you can do one handedly, things of that nature. And you just don't have an appetite. You don't have a desire to eat or you're eating all the time out of comfort. Again, your appetite does not match the intake of what you're doing. Same thing with sleep. Now, again, I've lived the newborn stage twice.
I get it. Babies really do dictate that so much. But if you're not sleeping at all, despite your baby sleeping, or you're sleeping all the time, you don't have that motivation to get out of bed. You don't want to get out of bed. You have no drive to do anything, which again, in the newborn stage, we really do need to cut back on our responsibilities.
Sarah: To rest and recover. Yeah. But if it's one of those, you're like, I would rather just not. And I tell people to another indicator of it is you take care of your baby because it's an obligation or a checklist of things you have to do, not because you want to do them. There's not a maternal motherly instinct driving that. That is another red flag for postpartum depression. That being said, again, once we get past that initial two weeks postpartum, and these symptoms are continuing, you need to reach out to your OB.
If you have a therapist, get on board with your therapist, make an appointment. Most places, especially in this day and age post COVID, they offer virtual. They offer virtual. So call around, see what options are available to you. And honestly, a lot of therapy places do cash rates because insurances are very hit or miss on covering mental health.
So if you know that your insurance does not cover mental health, ask if they have a cash rate. Because a lot of places do. And some places offer sliding scale as well. So just keep that in mind. That there's options. There's options. And it doesn't hurt to ask if you call a therapy office and they make you feel bad. That's not the place.
About cash rates. That's not a good office. And they could have very good therapist. But if that is your front end staff, that's not what you need. That's not because you're going to have to deal with that person to make appointments.
And it's going to be, it's hard when you want to ask for help or taking that first step to ask for help and being met with an obstacle or unkind. Or making you feel silly. Yeah.
Whitney: That's that's not going to. Are they exacerbate the depression?
Sarah: We ain't, we don't need to go there. Because there's a lot of great places and you can go on to PUS Part M support international's website. I love them. And they have a provider directory that is fantastic. And that is honestly how when we moved to Alabama, I found Whitney is because you were listed on there and they have the PSI training certification that they know that they are maternal mental health specialists. They get it. They've trained in it.
Whitney: They also have a 24 seven text line through postpartum support. So while we're based here in Alabama, if you're in Wisconsin, if you're in Texas, if you're in Utah, if you're wherever else, you can still use that PSI text line.
Sarah: And it's fantastic. It is. And that's a great organization. I think what, and I go back to when I was struggling postpartum depression and people have asked me this and they're like, so Sarah, why didn't you say, say something earlier? Okay.
Whitney: So a lot. There is still a stigma with mental health as a whole. But I think especially to and postpartums. And I think this existed before social media, but I think social media exacerbates it is that there is so much mom shaming. Oh my gosh. And here in the south, well, you should be grateful you have your baby.
Sarah: We're blessed and highly favored.
Whitney: Yes. And they look at you like healthy. You're here healthy. Like you, you, you're not strong. You just need a hot shower and a meal. Well, Aunt Brenda, I'm about to lose my mind on you.
Sarah: Or we all, we all did it. Yeah.
Whitney: Well, and here's the thing. If you did it and you didn't struggle, that is a good thing. We love that for you. But if you honestly just crawled through it, barely getting by, do you really have fond memories?
Sarah: No, you don't. That has part of timeframe. No. And you don't, because I know you don't because you're like, oh, I'm just glad that I'm experiencing that hard too.
Whitney: When you respond to me that way. There's that comparison game. It's like, so you walked up a hill backwards carrying, you know, a sack and the snow. So I'm in the middle of July. You know, it's like, it's just insane. Yeah, it is. And so that being said, there is a lot of stigma. So a lot of moms are scared to reach out because it makes them feel like a bad mom that they're struggling. They worry too that if they say something to their OB about, I'm struggling with anxiety, depression, OCD, postpartum rage, any of those things that DHR, which is our version of CPS Child Protective Services is going to come and take the baby away. And I worried that with Will.
Yeah. And well, there are scary stories. Now, Grinne, we don't know all the nitty gritty of those stories.
No, we don't. But having worked in the hospital setting of labor and delivery and having worked at DHR, that is not a reason to remove a child from a mom. Now, I will say one time years ago, remember working in the hospital, we had a mom who was having active suicidal thoughts. She told us that there was a gun in the glove box. So in the hospital setting, we did take her baby to the nursery. Now, mind you, she had delivered, was discharged and came back, I don't know, week, two weeks postpartum, telling us that she had suicidal thoughts and a plan and a way to carry out that plan. So what the hospital did was they asked if they could take the baby to the nursery, not the NICU. The nursery. Just the nursery so that while the patient was in the ER, they could get her stabilized.
Yeah. Now, in those types of situations, do we want to take the baby away from the mom? No, we don't. We worry about everybody's safety at that point. Now, mind you, we did have to reassure the mom that it was temporary. Yeah. And that once we got her stabilized that we could figure out a visitation between her and the baby.
Sarah: And you know what? It's just, and I think I, and that's what I told people a lot was like, I thought everybody was feeling the way, I thought new moms felt the way I felt in the beginning. I think people, my family thought that this was just to be expected. That it was the norm. It was the norm.
Typical. And then to me, the triggers was like you hear stories of people waking up and not being happy that they woke up. That was me.
Yeah. And it was just that day to day of like, I was ready for bed to come. But then I knew I wouldn't sleep. Because I couldn't sleep even though I was so exhausted. So it was this groundhog day experience and the loss of interest of my thing, of normal things that brought me joy.
That really hit. And then I also, which will recover this in a different episode is postpartum anxiety. I think anxiety definitely came into mind to play as well. But it was, I didn't recognize who I was. And the fact is like, I thought this was my forever, how I was feeling. And then I lost my hope. And so like you always say, hopelessness is a very dangerous thing.
It is. Because I thought this would never change. But I think it goes back to no one ever talked to me about what is postpartum depression. So when it happened and it escalated so quickly, I just thought this was my way of life.
And I was like, I can't live this way. So I think that's part of the prevention that's so important that people don't like, a lot of times healthcare providers, for whatever reasons, don't do a great job. You have to tell them what could happen so that they know there's treatment and they know what it is and they don't think they have to live that way. Or they don't think they're a bad mom or they don't think they're feeling or their friends and family don't dismiss what they're seeing. So that just was something that I felt was such a disservice, not just to me, but to moms.
Speaker 3: Because this has been going on for generations. I mean, I've heard stories where they're like, aunt so and so had to watch the baby for a little bit because your cousin had to take a couple of months away. Or they say the mom went away or you hear all this stuff and you recognize you're like, oh my gosh, that was post-partum depression or whatever that anxiety or psychoses that happened to these moms, all these generations before us and now we're talking about it.
Sarah: And they're like, oh my gosh, I probably had that.
Whitney: Yeah. And for them, it feels a little intimidating. They feel called out. And I get that because when you, hindsight being 20, 20, when you look back and you realize, oh, I was struggling with a mental illness. We also have to look at the generational stigmas. Oh, yes.
So being an 80s baby, I can remember vividly in the 90s and I'd say early 2000s. If you went to therapy, you were either court ordered, so negative connotation to that. Or you were a war veteran with severe PTSD. So again, negative connotation. We had, you know, slang terms of you're going to the loony bin. You're going to get locked up. Oh, you got to go to that padded sale. She crazy. You're going to get a straight jacket. I mean, come on, why would anybody wanna speak up and get help when we have all this negative slang and connotation?
Sarah: And I'll be honest with you, it took me a long time to feel how I feel now to be open and honest and share and have no shame. I mean, it took a long time, it took a decent amount of time to me to get to this point. Because to say I have struggled with mental health issues and this is not what defines me, but I know that I can share it honestly. So, but I mean, even now people get awkward when I share that I suffered from postpartum depression, they just kinda go, oh, okay, all right, you know, or whatever, and then Lord help them if I say, yes, I was suicidal at four months postpartum, then they really just back away in a quarter. So let's just, we'll summarize this of, it's common, so be aware and let this know, baby blues, expect it, have your family and friends, expect that, you know. And it happens it's hormonal. There's not like you can do something to magically stop it, but being aware of it.
Whitney: Be aware of it, honestly, what I told a lot of moms, and this is where I came to the conclusion as well, let yourself cry it out.
Sarah: Don't try to be like, I'm fine, and like then we're just all gonna explode and cry.
Whitney: Again, it ends at about two weeks postpartum. Post that, we really need to look a little deeper that it could be some postpartum depression, anxiety, OCD, other things going on. So know your time frames. Yes, that is really clutch.
Sarah: And have your family and friends know that too, and have those open conversations in pregnancy. Okay, so I was listening to this podcast, postpartum depression is the number one complication of childbirth. I am being educated, I'm making you aware that baby blues is something that's coming towards us.
We're gonna navigate that. We're gonna give ourselves grace during it, but we need to all be watching and say, okay, you know, if I have a friend who just had a baby, I'm checking in with them. And I think that's so important if you can kind of, if it's not your support person, it's not your partner or husband, whoever, that's fine. They may be too close in the situation.
If it's a friend, a colleague and say, you know, hey Whitney, how are you doing? Yeah. You know, I want you to know I'm your safe place.
That's right. You can tell me how you're truly feeling. And you know, I think too, what happens is it's always like, how's the baby Whitney?
Is the baby sleeping good? Is this, and you're just like, what about me? Yeah. They forget that. So I think that's the thing that has, we have to check on mom.
Whitney: Oh, absolutely. And here's the thing. Another thing to reach out to your support system with is, okay, can we figure out a meal train? Yes. Or even one of my friends, she was precious when my second one was born. She came by one day because she was having a doctor's appointment near where I lived. She got me lunch, all the things. So about nine-ish, no, maybe about a year later, she had her second one. Well, she lives probably a good 45 minutes to me and I don't have any, you know, reasons to go to the hospital. She got there, no appointments, anything. So you know what? I venmowed her money so that she could door-dash something.
Sarah: I also say door-dash, grub hub, Uber Eats, something. And that has allowed them to do that.
Whitney: Yeah, it gives them the freedom to do whatever they need to do with that.
Sarah: And that's such a way to show support and love. Yeah.
Whitney: So insist and say that to people. And can I also say that was one of my L and D nurse friends? So we got it. They knew.
Sarah: When? We know. We know. Once you've had this road of postpartum, like you know what a new mom needs.
Whitney: And that person-person. That's not but in one season. She brought me a Dr. Pepper and Chick-fil-A. I mean, that's my love language.
Sarah: That we love that. Okay. That's why we love Chick-fil-A too and they give great incentives for our women. That's a sign. Heck yes. But so no, I guess it's making like we're talking about postpartum depression right now. So openly and honestly, that's the key. So talk about it, learn about it, listen into us. We're going to tell you, we've told you the signs and sometimes speak up.
Whitney: Positive affirmations, you're not a bad mom if you struggle. No. Mamas, go ahead and put that in the notes section on your phone. Yes. You are not a bad mom if you struggle.
Sarah: And this is not something I caused? No. I will be well. Yes. This is temporary?
Whitney: Exactly. That's a huge mantra right there is this too shall pass. This too shall pass? It might be painful like a kidney stone, but it'll pass.
Sarah: Oh, that's triggering. I know. I knew it would resonate with you. If you guys have heard my kidneys don't issue that we had not too long ago, you know that's a thing. And just know you did nothing to cause this. Correct. So take that shame away, take that guilt away. Now we need to just touch on risk factors. Okay.
Whitney: So risk factors for postpartum, but any mental health is there a family history of mental illness? And I know a lot of times, you know, even ADD ADHD kind of gets swept under the rug of, oh, that's not a big deal. It still falls into the category of a mental illness. So if you have a brother or a parent or a grandparent that got diagnosed with that, it's still a risk factor.
Okay. So be aware of that if your parents have ever struggled with anxiety, depression, PTSD, anything of that nature realize you are a higher risk because genetics do play a role in
Speaker 3: everything, not just our physical health, but also our mental health. If you have a sibling that's ever been diagnosed, realize, okay, well we share some DNA. All right, yeah. I could be a little higher risk for some things. I would tell you if you've ever had a history of a traumatic delivery, if you are a high risk pregnancy.
Sarah: So that's just national diabetes.
Whitney: That's like health center issue, health syndrome, preeclampsia, IUGR, macro, soma, did I say that right? Yeah. Okay. So all of those things, if you end up having a stat C section and you're in the postpartum, realize that could be a risk factor, if you have a traumatic vaginal delivery, because those do happen. Very much so. Those mommas with the fourth degrees.
Sarah: Or that's awful. You know the baby's desaline or what, and it's a rushed situation. I mean, I think anything traumatic is to what is something that you did not prepare for or anticipate.
Whitney: Your epidural didn't work, so you felt every worry thing. Or you didn't get a chance for an epidural. That's traumatic, hello. If you deliver in the car or in the parking lot.
Sarah: I've had a couple of people I know from college that's had those situations. I'm just like.
Whitney: Yeah, we had them a few times in the hospital. It was bananas. I mean, I'd rather deliver in an ambulance than the parking deck if I'm being real, because at least I have paramedics there to be on board.
Sarah: What else, let's see. Oh, thyroid.
Whitney: We always talk about thyroid. That definitely was a contributing factor to my anxiety until we diagnosed my thyroid problem.
Sarah: So have most providers should be doing a basic thyroid, like THS.
Whitney: TSH and T3, T4. Basic in the beginning of pregnancy. Because you can't have pregnancy-induced thyroid problems.
Sarah: So that should be on their radar, and that should be part of the zillion blood work you have to give in the beginning. So you can always ask and just say, hey, what's my thyroid numbers within normal range? Is there anything you know of? I will say when I had had our first miscarriage, I immediately was like, let's check my thyroid, because that is a correlation.
Whitney: Low iron can contribute to it as well, because low iron makes us feel fatigued, and that always exacerbates anything that's going on.
Sarah: Vitamin D is huge just for us in overall. We're speaking to like our, if the pregnancy was unwanted, unplanned, that can definitely be a risk factor. History of those losses, miscarriages, stillborns.
Whitney: Honestly, even neonatal or child loss? Oh, absolutely. I have a friend that lost her twin boys just a week or so after their first birthday, because they were born with a pretty rare genetic disorder, and they spent the majority of their lives at Children's Hospital. And whenever she does get pregnant again, that's gonna be triggering.
Sarah: Oh, I mean, I will say the miscarriages that I've had, the fact of even saying a positive pregnancy after that, it starts mentally for me at that moment. Absolutely. And once you've experienced loss, I just don't think you can, with that, I just think your mind and body just will never let you
Whitney: know what it's like without like that joy. It's a protective measure to be on guard. 100%. I would even say something like if you've had an ovarian cyst rupture before during pregnancy, ectopic pregnancies put you at a higher risk for those things.
Sarah: If you or yourself have medical complications, and you've like had to be closely watched for your own health, then now your health and your baby's health's on board, because pregnancy is physically taxing on your body.
So you're putting those already kind of trying their best organs and overdrive. Baby with special needs, the NICU experience can be, difficulty breastfeeding is, we have to put that out there, because that can lead you down quickly a road, and people don't like to tell you this, but fat is best, and mental health of a mom.
Whitney: Hey, I formula fed both my babies from the get go, and that's okay.
Sarah: They're fine. They are. And the pressure that's put on moms to breastfeed when they don't want to, can't, or simply just choose like, this is not for me, my mental health, that's just, that's a whole way to make a mom feel guilty and unworthy. Absolutely. And then, if you have no support, or you're in a domestic or verbal, physically, just abusive relationship, that with no support, or you're away from family, say your husband's deployed, say you've lost a spouse. Lack of support overall. Financial issues, all those things that we would look at outside of pregnancy and say, yeah, that could be like super hard and depressing. It's 10 times more, because now we have hormones at play, you're not sleeping.
Whitney: We have a small person dependent on us fully. Because it's a huge life adjustment.
Sarah: If any of these risk factors, if you're pregnant, you're hearing that, just recognize, hey, it's not saying you're going to have it, we're saying just be more aware that it's set up and the US task force recommends, if you have a risk factor of these, that you should start therapy and pregnancy. Yes, even if it's once a month. Even if it's once a month checked in, and that's why we, Previa, we so strongly, when they do the profile and complete the risk factors, we offer that therapy. It's because we're following the task force recommendations because we know it suits a mom and it's gonna serve a mom.
It's vital. So if this is resonating with you, you're pregnant, you're postpartum, ask for help. And let's talk about just recovery and when, and I wish someone would have told me this, but the sooner I would have reached out and sooner I would have got treatment, the faster I would have got better.
Whitney: Oh, absolutely. Early intervention is best intervention. For anything. Oh, 1000%.
Sarah: If you've got a cut and it's starting to get infected, we wanna get like the first sign of infection.
Whitney: We don't wanna fall. I thought I could just put a bandaid on him, we gravy.
Sarah: Oh, that's what they try to tell us. Okay. That's how we all end up with the mom in the hospital. That's what we do to moms. So we give them a bandaid when they need full-on IV antibiotics, they need to have it monitored, watch in a constant treatment plan. Yep. That's why moms literally are like their arms are falling off. It's because that's the thing. And you know, the first step is the hardest step. It is.
And if you won't ask for help for yourself, do it for your child. And that's what someone told me. And that's why I needed to hear. And then besides therapy, if they're like, okay, Whitney, what else can I just do on the day to day to make myself feel better?
Whitney: So you know, I love me some voice journaling. We love our voice journaling. So if you've got an iPhone and Android, I don't know if Google phones have this. I would assume that they do, but I'm not 100% sure. You should have an app called Voice Memo app. You just open it up and you hit that record button and you just say whatever it is that you need to say. You let it out. Get that off your chest. And the point of that is truly just to decompress, have a safe outlet for it.
And the thing is you may not even be looking for a solution. You sometimes have got to like. You just got to let it out.
Let it be. And then you're not gonna get unsolicited advice and feedback from your phone. So it's a safe place just to get stuff out. And if you're like me and you're an auditory processor, when I start talking out loud, I'm like, oh, here's a different perspective. Or maybe this is a solution. Oh, maybe I do like that option. It just gives you a chance to organize your thoughts.
I like that. So you just decompress. You don't have to do it for a certain amount of time.
There's not a criteria to that. You may need 30 seconds. You may need five minutes.
I am not the one to put that criteria on there. You do what you need to do. Another good option, especially if you're having like the physical symptoms of anxiety.
Sarah: And that's something to say is depression and anxiety can be physical. You can have headaches. You can have body aches. You can have stomach distress. I know with my anxiety, I couldn't keep anything down.
Whitney: Yeah. That's not uncommon. It would go through me. TMI guys, but it was just like, I knew I was not, I know some people like a fever blisters when they have really bad anxiety. I know some that's back hurts. Yeah, you get the tension in your neck and shoulders. All that kind of stuff.
Sarah: So it can be physical. Absolutely. Which that's hard. I think that's being dismissed too. A lot of these signs and symptoms of just depression, anxiety in general, because you just had a baby and your provider's like, well, yeah, your back probably hurts because you're bent over now or you're not sleeping. You had a C-section or whatever. But walking helped me get a little sunlight, fresh air.
Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. If it's a good time of year and the weather is good, go for it. Butterfly tapping is another really good option. And that's where you take your hands and you kind of do them in an X and make it to where like your middle fingers kind of touch in just under your shoulder blade. And you just want to alternate tapping your hands. You're not going to go fast and you don't have to go in a very specific rhythm, but just tap for a little bit. And I know some people do both hands at the same time. That's okay too.
You're not going to rush it. Just like that. And you don't have to do a certain pattern or rhythm to it. Just up and down. And that little bit of compression on your chest really does help think of like a weighted blanket. You're providing, you are your own weighted blanket.
Sarah: That's why those things sold out like crazy.
Whitney: I'm saying it. And then doing the butterfly tap is just a good way of kind of resetting your central nervous system in a sense. And it's a tactile grounding method.
I love that. And so other tactile grounding methods that you can do, let's just say you're in the car and all of a sudden you kind of get hit with anxiety. And there's not necessarily a trigger.
It just kind of hits you. If you've got sanitizer in the car, taking some slow breaths of sanitizer that can also help with nausea too. The rubbing alcohol can very much help with nausea.
If you've got lotion, do that. Smell it. Smell it. So we're utilizing our sense of smell. If you've got gum with you, candy, something to drink, take that in.
I bring my V8 with me. That's right. So we're utilizing our sense of taste.
You can do that. And for touch, it's a little bit harder, obviously if you're driving. But again, if you can squirt maybe some of that sanitizer on your hands, see how that feels. Or if you do have a bottle of water, coke, whatever in the car with you, put that cold on your neck.
Sarah: Let's just do it now to feel it because I'm like obsessed with it.
Whitney: Or am I, I do the wrist. As well, so you can do it on your wrist as a pulse point. You can do it on your neck as a pulse point. Sometimes it's good to do it on the back of your neck because that's where a lot of people feel heat. Yes, I. Heat is another symptom of anxiety is if you get a hot flesh all of a sudden. So that's another, you know, that's another symptom of it.
Sarah: That's a physical symptom that, who we've all had that where we just literally feel like our body's on fire.
Whitney: Yes. So, but if you're at home, for example, if you can walk outside barefoot for 15 seconds and just feel the blades of grass on your feet.
Sarah: I can be honest with you this morning, trying to get everybody up and out the door. I stepped outside for a second. Look at you. And you know, baby James was on my hip, but we took out and we grounded together for a minute.
Whitney: See, and our kids can learn these coping skills from us. You can also splash water on your face, grab something cold out of the fridge or freezer. We both came back better. Yeah. We get an opportunity to ground and that really does just take the edge off. I'm not saying it is a cure for anxiety or depression or anything, but it takes the edge off. It helps us feel like we have a little bit more of a level head. We can take that deep breath and say, okay, I've had my little reset now, let's go in.
Sarah: It's just like almost I relate it to like the Tasmanian devil. You slow it to where he's at least not spinning. Correct. And that's what we need to do in those moments. And again, if you are having thoughts of harming yourself or your child, that is something that you need to get immediate help for.
Whitney: That would be a 911 or go to your closest emergency room. You can call your OB's office, but they're gonna tell you those same things.
Sarah: They are. And there is a new 988 mental health suicide hotline that you can, but... And it's a text line too. It is. I'm not mistaken. You can text and you can call and it's 24 seven, but there I will stress it enough. You are wanted, you are cared for, and your life is worth living. We can overcome this. We can overcome it. It is a temporary feeling and there is help.
So if that resonates with you and you feel like there's no choice, and I have been there and I am so glad that I got help and that I'm not ashamed to say that. Correct. And there's no shame, but...
Whitney: No, well, you didn't do anything wrong. No. The Elton Shamer reserved for when you do something wrong.
Sarah: And see that is just what someone needed to tell me four and a half years ago that no one did. So I'm so glad that the people who are listening now, they hear that. Okay guys, we will be with you this whole month giving you more tools, more sickness. Share this to your mom friends. Thank you. Send it to make your husband listen to it. Okay, when he's in the restroom, we know for like two hours.
Whitney: I was about to say a while.
Sarah: So, wait. A hot minute. Till next time guys.
Whitney: All right, see ya.
Outro: Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Previa Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with post-partum depression in all its variables, like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkers, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focused on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and post-partum.
Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.
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