In a world filled with conflict and division, how we show up in our relationships can shape our connections and personal growth.
Today, I’m joined by Dr. Jonathan Marion, an anthropology professor, and somatic coach, to explore the profound impact of somatic awareness, intentionality, and compassion in our interactions.
Stay tuned and discover how focusing on how we engage, rather than just what we do, can foster meaningful change in ourselves and those around us.
In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Marion takes us through:
- The importance of compassion and responsibility in personal relationships.
- The impact of global conflicts on personal connections.
- Focusing on how we engage in relationships to foster presence and intentionality.
- The power of somatic awareness and how the body holds past experiences.
- The practice of "future casting" for more conscious responses.
- His transition from psychology to anthropology and its influence on his work.
- The relationship between body, identity, culture, and somatic practices.
- Moving beyond Western frameworks for a holistic mind-body approach.
And so much more!
Dr. Jonathan Marion is a transformational life coach, consultant, and speaker who helps all kinds of accomplished professionals find fulfillment in their lives. Jonathan believes that when we live, connect, and communicate authentically, we create a ripple effect that turns the world into a more caring and connected place.
He draws on decades of experience teaching diverse audiences and is trained in Emotional Intelligence, Group Coaching, Positive Psychology Coaching, Clear Beliefs Coaching, and Somatic Coaching. His mission is to be a catalyst for transformation, supporting his clients and audiences as they transcend external accomplishments as measures for success and lead more rewarding, meaningful lives.
Links for Jonathan Marion:
For more about Jonathan and his coaching services: www.stepsalongtheway.global
For his dance teaching: www.zoukislife.com
For complimentary Your Next Step Chat: www.stepstochat.com
Follow Aimee Takaya on:
IG: @aimeetakaya
Facebook: Aimee Takaya
Learn more about Aimee Takaya, Hanna Somatic Education, and The Radiance Program at www.freeyoursoma.com.
LISTEN WHILE READING!
A: Have you been affected by all of the conflict in the world? So many different viewpoints and attitudes that can feel polarizing and further our interpersonal disconnection.
Today, I have award-winning anthropology professor, author, and somatic coach, Dr. Jonathan Marion on the podcast to discuss how we can develop deeper understanding and compassion by thinking like a cultural anthropologist, as well as increasing our somatic awareness and presence.
Stay tuned for this super exciting and important conversation.
A: Did you know that your muscles are holding on to thoughts, memories, and feelings? If you have a tight neck or back, you're not just getting old. You're experiencing a buildup of tension from the life you've lived. Most people don't know this, but there is a part of your brain that can reverse and prevent chronic tension.
When you relax your muscles, you not only move better and regulate your nervous system, but you also free yourself from the grip the past has over your body. So you can live with freedom, confidence, and enjoy your life now. How does that sound? Join me, Aimee Takaya, and discover what my clients are raving about at youcanfreeyorsoma.com.
A: Hello there, Jonathan. How are you today?
J: Hi, Aimee. I'm doing great. Thank you. How are you?
A: You know, it's been a busy morning. I think we're on the other side of the world, so you've probably had your own day. It's like I'm just beginning, and you're just ending the day, but here we are by power of technology.
J: Absolutely.
A: Yeah. So I'm very excited to have this conversation with you, because, as we were chatting before we started, many people are starting to step into a sense of responsibility. How can I as a person, improve or shift how I'm showing up that can improve the state of the world?
Right? Because when we look around at the world, there's so much strife and conflict, and sometimes even within our own families and interpersonal relations, there's a lot of struggle that people are experiencing. What do you think about that dynamic that people are in?
J: Yeah. I think it's absolutely true, and you also used a really keyword there, which is how. How can they show up? I think that too often in today's society where it's all about doing and achieving, we lose track of just being, and we're human beings, not human doings.
Rather than focusing on the what, if we step back and focus on the how, so if it's with my boss at work, if it's with a co-worker, if it's with my kids, it's with a different family member, if it's with a friend, how do I want to show up with this person in this particular interaction? How do I want to show up in this interview?
And so if we step back and just focus on the how, we can actually be more present with more intentionality. And one of the things I find is the people who've influenced me in my life the most, sure, some of the ideas and concepts, but it's really how they show up as people that really leaves the most impression on me. And so if we focus on our how, we can really have ripple impacts that go far beyond what we realize in the moment.
A: Yeah. That's making a lot of sense to me. I tend to think of it as a, I do somatic hands-on body work, and I lead somatic movement practices, and it's always nervous system to nervous system. So that's kind of speaking to the how. Where are you tuned in your nervous system at this moment?
And what kind of capacity do you have to show up in a way that's going to be meaningful and impactful? Because I think at the end of the day, when we're laying in bed, thinking about how we went about our day, right? We're thinking about how we were, how we showed up, and how it felt to be doing whatever it was we were doing.
J: Absolutely. And I also think, at least in my own experiences and from people I've talked to, that's also where our biggest regrets come from. Because it's when we think back on it, whether it's that night or two weeks later, two months later, two years later, and it's like, oh man, I wish I had said, I wish I had done.
And so the version, I didn't have a name for it when I first came up with it, but I now refer to it as future casting. So when things are the most overwhelming, I sort of cast myself five years forward and go looking back on this moment, how am I going to have wanted to respond? Now, I might not have the full capacity to do it, but at least it gives me a North Star, at least it gives me a guiding point. That's what I'm trying to get to.
A: Yeah, that's cool. And do you do that through visualizing? Are you visualizing yourself and your mind when you're talking about this tool?
J: I think it depends because in the moment, it works different ways. And certainly, when I'm facilitating for other people, some people are more visual, some not, and that's okay. So I don't try and limit it. It's really picturing yourself five years from now, thinking about it five years from now, reflecting five years from now, how are you going to have wanted to show up? How am I going to have wanted to show up? And whatever works in the moment, that's the guide.
A: Nice. Yeah, wow. It's cool. I feel like we could jump into some fun things about timelines, because you're accessing a future timeline, a future self, and then you're backtracking. You're like following the little trail back to this present moment to guide you in that direction.
Like you said, there may be some detours along the way, but that's really cool. So share with us a little bit about your background. How did you come to be a somatic coach? How did you come to be a cultural anthropologist? And where do those things intersect for you?
J: Absolutely. So I'll try and give the condensed version. After I'd finished my undergraduate degree, I realized that even though I'd already been accepted into a PhD program in clinical, multicultural community psychology, I didn't actually want to do psychology as a profession. I love the discipline.
And so I took some time off and was traveling overseas, backpacked from Europe down to Egypt. I think I started in Sweden. And then I spent probably 11 months out of 14 months volunteering on a communal farm in Israel.
I'm on a Key Boots. And between the other volunteers, between the backpacking, one of the things that I got really clear about is that as much as I loved going to different places and doing different things, it was meeting people. And so I started to be paying more attention to what did people think about and do this same and why? And what did they think about and do differently and why?
And so that sort of put the idea of anthropology in the back of my brain, even though I hadn't taken a single class in it as an undergraduate. As an undergrad, I double majored in political philosophy and in psychology. So I've always been interested in why do people think about things the way they do and how do they think about things?
And then when I applied to graduate school, like many people, I applied to multiple schools, but it was only when I got everything back, I realized that each school was a slightly different discipline and that I'd applied in a total of eight different disciplines.
And that told me, wait a minute, I need a big umbrella. Cultural anthropology, or anthropology in general, the study of people, cultural anthropology, the study of people in living cultures, that's a pretty big umbrella. And so that led me in that direction, though I actually got my PhD in psychological anthropology, so the permeable border between personality and culture.
And so then I was working in that field and primarily studying issues of performance, embodiment, identity, and gender and had published, I think, four academic books and had leadership positions, been president of a couple of national organizations. And then, I was on a research leave the first half of 2019 in Brazil in Rio de Janeiro, and staying with a good friend of mine who still lived there at the time, he's Brazilian.
And I remember sitting in his living room and looking across the street, and it wasn't one of the tourist areas, it was, I might have been the only person from North America living in that area at the time, maybe not, but I mean, definitely didn't bump into any other tourists. And I remember thinking about why is it that I feel more at home here than in my own house when the room I'm staying in is smaller than my closet back home.
And it had to do with quality of relationships, and that all of my friends and the people who knew me in Brazil, they knew what I did professionally, and they were maybe proud of me or proud for me, but they loved me, Jonathan, not the external accomplishments. And that as long as I stayed in academia, which is always about latest publication, latest grants, latest teaching evaluation, latest conference presentation, latest professional organization, board position, it was never going to be that.
And so that's what sort of said, you know what, I can't really show up as my most authentic self in a world that's all about those, the doing and not just the being. And then when I step back and say, okay, well, then what do I want to do? It became pretty clear that as a tenured faculty member, 40% of my job was research. Well, I'm good at it. I don't love it.
20% was professional service. I was good at it. I don't love it. 40% was teaching. I don't love lecturing, per se, and I certainly don't love arguing with students about why they didn't get an A on a paper that fulfilled the minimum requirements. But the informal interactions, the five to 10 minutes before or after class, where they had their own questions about things and how it applied in their lives, or my graduate students working on their MAs or their PhDs, because it wasn't like I had a lab and was assigning them something.
I was helping them refine and like really hone in on what were their questions and how were they going to find their own answers. So wait a minute, what's your question and I'm supporting you to find your own answer? Well, that took me in the direction of life coaching. And so I started training. I'd already been doing that type of work for a while, but I didn't really have the coaching-specific training at the time.
In the latter half of 2019, when I was back in the US, and then as I completed that, again, so much of my work and research had been with dancers. I had studied the world of competitive ballroom, and my PhD right before I defended it was the first season of Dancing with the Stars. So I'd been doing that research before all of that stuff landed. And like even the first season of Dancing with the Stars in the US had six professionals, five of them I'd interviewed for my own research before the TV show came out.
The one I hadn't, we shared the same bed and breakfast in Blackpool, England for a week. And so ideas about body and identity with people who work with their bodies. And yes, it's an image, but it's also who they are.
And that they're the type of dancers who are not performing a role such as a prince or a tree or whatever you have, but a version of themselves. And then, in teaching, two of my most popular classes were body and identity and culture and medicine.
And so from an academic standpoint, I already had really been exploring stuff around that intersection of how different cultures conceptualize body, identity, mind versus body. And so like, even in the cultural, or sorry, the culture and medicine class, you know, we talk about, you know, the idea of like mind-body connection, which is much more popular now than it was, but that's still rooted in a Western framework because it's still, for it to be a connection, it's still saying it's two separate things.
And there's a bridge between them. And as people who are more familiar with somatic work, you know, are familiar, whether it's from indigenous traditions, from some Eastern traditions, body-mind is a more accurate description in a lot of conceptual frameworks, and you can't separate them. And so I felt like I really needed to account for that and, you know, how I was coaching in my training. So I got trained by the somatic school in body-oriented coaching.
They're out of London. And then when they launched their cohorts in the Americas, I was brought on for contract work and was a co-facilitator for their first two cohorts in the Americas.
A: Fantastic. I think, you know, what you're pointing to in the dancer, and I've actually interviewed a number of dancers for this very reason, is that, you know, we have dance as a performance, and then we have dance as a personal expression of self and an embodiment of, you know, a part of ourselves that's kind of being cultivated through the training, but also through the experiential, you know, connection that we're creating with ourselves through our body.
And there's an intersection of those things. And there's a dance between those two things, that it's not only for self, but it's for others, that it's performative, but it's also authentic and natural. Like, I think that, you know, that entry into understanding, like what you said, that mind and body aren't separate, that it's actually both together all the time, simultaneous, right?
It seems like a perfect way to kind of like ease into that understanding through kind of the viewpoint of the dancer or through the viewpoint of that kind of physical discipline. You know, I'm also very curious, like, you know, in this process to move from academia to, you know, coaching, somatic coaching, and more of this kind of one-on-one, more intimate work with people, do you feel like you yourself had to go through a shift in transformation?
Did you have to go through, like, it's kind of a breakdown of like an old self and an emergence into a new self?
A: Did you know that your muscles are holding on to thoughts, memories, and feelings? If you have a tight neck or back, you're not just getting old, you're experiencing a build-up of tension from the life you've lived. Most people don't know this, but there is a part of your brain that can reverse and prevent chronic tension. When you relax your muscles, you not only move better and regulate your nervous system, but you also free yourself from the grip the past has over your body. So you can live with freedom, confidence, and enjoy your life now. How does that sound? Join me, Aimee Takaya, and discover what my clients are raving about at youcanfreeyorsoma.com.
J: Yeah, it's super interesting. The type of dancing I do now primarily is Brazilian Zook, and it's a partner dance. And my first dance was actually salsa before I got into ballroom for research. And so social dancing really is a nonverbal language and communication, and who we are as people and how we're showing up as people in the moment influences the dance far more than any technique will.
And so that relationship between self and movement and connecting with others was something that I was already aware of. And back in March of 2019, I'd been in Sao Paulo and training with an amazing dancer, an amazing human being, Brenda Gicavalio. And we talked about the value of just being versus doing and the difference in dance of like just presence versus trying to make something happen, moving organically versus minimal effort versus powering through things. And I really thought I had it.
I really thought I understood and was on, if you will, team being versus doing. But then in early November 2019, I had just got back from a conference in San Diego. And I knew my back was tightening up when I was driving home from the airport.
And I was like, okay, tomorrow I'll go to the chiropractor. The next morning I went to get out of bed and there was this lightning bolt of agony just shot down my right side. And I could not support myself. And I had to drag myself on my elbows to just even get across the floor. The whole thing was botched as far as how it was handled quite poorly.
And we didn't know until months later, I think two months later, at least, what had actually happened. But there's actually nerve damage to L3 on my right side. And the nerve channel there at L3. And for five weeks, I couldn't even roll onto a side. And because it's nerve damage, normal pain meds don't do anything.
And nerve pain medications like gabapentin, which is what I took at the time, take six to eight weeks to build up. And so I really had this existential crisis of, okay, I thought I was about being, but literally I can't do any of the things I did before. Am I even the same Jonathan? I cannot do what I did. Do I even have the same value as a human being? And it really made me confront those things and think through those things.
A: And feel through them too, right? Because physical pain is not just physical, it's mental, emotional, and spiritual. And when you're in that much pain and you have no control over it, it's quite the event. Absolutely.
J: And I mean, as you say, there's the physical pain itself, which I mean, excruciating nerve pain is not like anything else. And for those who've experienced it, my unending sympathies and for those who haven't, I wish you never do. But again, not knowing what caused it, not knowing if it would ever get better, am I always going to have this pain? Am I ever going to dance again? Am I ever going to even walk again? So that existential challenge to just who am I in the world? What's my value?
What do I do? Again, back to the idea of doing. Like it was a real challenge. And I had to put the training for coaching on hiatus. I was lucky that I had a chair of my department at the time who supported me in pivoting my classes to online delivery. But some of the students understood and some didn't. I remember getting a really nasty teaching evaluation from someone who's like, you know, it's hard to take this class seriously when the professor can't be bothered to show up.
I couldn't walk. You know, and again, you know, they're going through their own thing. I don't think they're a bad human being. But I mean, it was really like, I felt like I was dealing with enough already. But as you said, like it's painful in a lot of ways. Yeah.
A: Yeah, wow. I mean, and also that question of like, who am I and what is my value if I can't do and, you know, show up the way that I'm used to showing up. You know, this mirrors this interesting, my own kind of story that many people, you know, who've listened to my podcast have heard. But I was a yoga teacher traveling globally, you know, for about five years and during that time, I had an increasing amount of physical pain in my body that my yoga practice wasn't resolving.
And so I went through something similar this very dark night of the soul for me, unfortunately, it went on for years, because I was very stubborn and I wanted to keep doing what I had been doing. And I, you know, I luckily had some tools, which is now what I teach, neuromuscular somatic release, but I had some tools that kind of kept the worst of it at bay when I would use those tools, you know, but it is terrifying to not only, you know, be kind of temporarily divorced from something that you love, like in your case, dancing, you know, and all the things that you would physically show up for.
For me, it was, is this yoga that I'm doing actually helping my body or is it actually harming my body? And it wasn't again, the yoga itself, you know, it wasn't the dancing, it was the how, you know, and so I'm curious in terms of like your own, you know, arc here in coming out of that pain, what did you discover about how you had been dancing or how you had been showing up in your body previously that needed kind of a reset through this experience?
J: Yeah, it's really interesting. As far as I know, there wasn't anything in the dancing itself that caused it. That said, we don't know what caused it. And that's still one of the mysteries. I hadn't, you know, I'd fallen in my life, but like I hadn't within at least a half a year, I've been in car accidents in my life, and I have other injuries from those. But it hadn't been in, I don't know, 10 years at that point.
Like there was no immediate predecessor. And that's part of why I think I even carry myself unintentionally now with a little more rigidity than I mean to, because anytime there's a little twinge, there's like this tightening up, and I have to like intentionally pay attention and, you know, go, is there something to be concerned about? Or can I release that?
That said, one of the super interesting things that happened is while I was still flat in bed and had at home physical therapy going on, again, we had it missed, I noticed at the time, so weren't even really targeting the right thing. There was one day that the physical therapist showed up and it overlapped with when the person who was coming to help me that day showed up. And I forget which one was running early and which one late, but somehow they overlapped. And so there were two things that had happened in that space. One is I literally couldn't move.
And so it really demanded vulnerability. Like I didn't have any family who lived within multiple states. I had one family member who offered to come and stay with me, but I'm like, I only need help for 10 minutes a day. And I'd rather not feel like I need to sort of find a way to entertain you when I can't even move.
And sometimes it really hurts and I just want to yell. And I'm not going to feel free to do that if I know there's someone on the other side of the house who might then respond and come rushing. Worried, yeah. Exactly. But so I needed someone to refill water bottles, mix me a protein shake, and empty portable urinals.
That's not the type of stuff we like to talk about with people most of the time, let alone reach out in social media for people who were in my area and saying, look, I need help. And it was so interesting because some of the people who I thought would show up didn't. And that was disappointing. And it hurt in some ways.
But it was also so rewarding because some of the people I never would have guessed, they were there. And so not that trying to hide things or shy away from them and just, if that's what's going on, be open to it. And then that brings me back to this particular incident where there was this overlap.
The person who was stopping by to help that day is someone who at a certain point in time, I had thought I might marry her eventually. And we'd had a conversation at one point about like, was that something that down the line, she could see happening? Things didn't work out between us, and that's okay.
I thought I had dealt with it and processed it. But because of the overlap, the physical therapist had a heart rate monitor on my finger when this person walked in the room. And all of a sudden, the heart rate just jumps through the roof. Neither one of them knows that this is what's going on. The physical therapist is like, oh, you need to stop talking right now. It's like, I know that's not what's going on.
But it really brought home for me. The body is holding on to some stuff here. There's more to process than I had realized, even if it doesn't have to do with the injury directly. There's still something I'm holding onto.
There's some distress. And so that was actually part of my awakening to that and part of what, when I then was able to go back to my coach training at the time, told me I also really need to make sure I get training and body oriented coaching as well and in somatic work. Fantastic.
A: Yes. Oh my God. I think that what you're describing in that acknowledgement that like your body had this response to something that you had previously thought you dealt with on a mental slash emotional level, because we're very good at, oh, okay, this difficult thing. I don't have all the space in the world or maybe even the capacity or tools to unpack it.
So I'm just going to do my best with what I have. And then it's going to get tucked away. And where it gets tucked away is somewhere in our body. And what you're explaining about, oh, having fallen, car accidents, all these different things, even just all the physical activity of moving around globally has an impact on our physical body, had an impact on your back.
And the way that I view it as a hanosomatic educator is an accumulation. There's an accumulation going on unconsciously that we're unaware of that is slowly but gradually tightening our bodies, causing our nervous system to get a higher and higher baseline tension of where we're resting, what our resting state is, is slowly getting more and more elevated. And this is happening to everybody because we're living in a unnatural world.
If you want to put it politely, we have a constant exposure to so much more information and electricity and activity. And we're incredibly intelligent beings so we can push ourselves and really go for what's important to us, especially in the Western world. You know, you know this through academia, just like sacrifice, sometimes our basic needs for like sleep and food and proper rest and all that stuff to achieve a goal.
And all of that is glorious in its own way, but it takes a toll on our physical system. And so it sounds like you really reached this impasse and it even pushed you further into this undiscovered at this point calling to work with people in a much more intimate way. And I love that you had to go through that in your own way through this injury to feel and experience that relationship between my body, my mind, which is not separate, but the same, and the interaction with the outside world.
J: Yeah, no, and it really did land for me because then when I actually separate from the, I shouldn't say separate, but like overlapping, but not necessarily coterminous with the somatic work, like even when it's just mindset, again, they're not really separate, but coaching like I actually took being as the acronym, because again, I think that's so important. It goes back to how we open the conversation. It's the how, how do I want to be, you know, how do I want to be a human being?
And so I use that as the acronym for just all of my coaching and consulting to begin with. Different topic, but again, it really landed for me through my experiences of how important it was to come back to that. And as you just, you know, had brought up, one of the things that from cultural anthropology, I'm very aware of and used to like really speak to a lot as well, is there's a mismatch because we have one autonomic nervous system, which is based on biological evolution.
That happens at a very different scale and speed than cultural evolution, which outstrips it, you know, magnitudes over. And so when we experience stress, it's a nervous system that's evolved for life and death scenarios.
It's, you know, big bear. And so either, you know, fight, I bonk it in the head with a rock and I get away. Flight, I run fast enough, I get away.
Freeze, you know, I stay very still behind a tree and it loses interest. But once that life and death scenario is over, yes, there's gonna be this huge flood of stress hormones in the body. But once that situation is over, it's over and those things have a chance to dissipate. What are the things that trigger stress in the modern world? You know, something on the news cycle, traffic, you know, different people wanting different things for me simultaneously. I mean, that part probably happened before, but what's the ongoingness of it in modern life?
And so when do we actually have time for all of those things to drain out of our system and reset? And that goes to that point you were making of this rigidity just keeps building and building and building, because it's so rare that if we don't deliberately attend to it, that any of those things get let go of truly. Right.
A: And I mean, that's why I think that my personal viewpoint is that the future of psychology, the future of coaching is somatic, because people are realizing that, you know, we can't just work with our mind, you know, mindset coaching. If we don't have a body connection, and we aren't aware of our body, it only goes so deep, right?
But if you develop that body awareness and that body connection, you can be doing, you know, kind of mental reprogramming, and it is also physical reprogramming, it's experienced through your body once those channels to receive that feedback, that information from your nervous system open, and you practice sensing in and getting that feedback, everything becomes somatic potentially.
Everything that we do can become a living embodied experience versus being disconnected and compartmentalizing and suppressing and, you know, mind over matter and kind of the other end of the spectrum here where we, you know, think of our body as an inconvenience that we have to overcome versus, oh, this is a source of wisdom and a source of power that if I can start communicating and listening, then big things can happen.
So maybe this is a great opportunity to kind of step into this idea of, you know, having deeper compassion for others in the world, but I'm assuming there's going to be something in here about how it's related to ourself, right? So maybe you can give us a little bit of an idea about this idea, the construct that you're talking about compassion through our somatic presence.
J: Sure. So I think the starting point is no one on the planet wakes up in the morning, thinks of different alternatives, go, this one makes no sense, I'm going to go do it. Absolutely no one. They might think that the options that they're aware of suck and they might really suck. I mean, there's real problems in the world.
There's real tragedies. There's traumatic things happening, but people are still choosing whatever option of the ones they're available to them or they're aware of. They're choosing the one that makes the most sense. And so if rather than when we see things that don't make sense to us, we approach it with a judgmental or an accusatory, how could they think that?
But with a genuine curiosity and with trusting that there is a reason, how is it that they think that? Because there is a way, then we can start to build a bridge. And it's what I used to refer to as cultural logic to my students, because there is a logic behind what everyone does. And so if we just start there, we can start to build some of those bridges for understanding where people are coming from.
And I think one of the really important points here when we're talking about developing some type of cultural relativism, we're not talking about, I have to agree with anyone. We're not saying I open-minded means that, yes, I'm going to adopt something that maybe runs counter to my own values or convictions.
We're just talking about being able to understand where someone else is coming from. And that's never done any harm to anyone. And again, it may or may not actually resolve things. It's not a panacea. I'm not putting on rose-colored glasses here, but it's creating a bridge for the possibility.
A: I love that. I think it's actually very similar to some of the inquiry that in my somatic practice, I do with people where they maybe have this pain in their back or they have this tension somewhere in their body, or maybe they have certain habits and behaviors that they're like, why do I keep doing this?
I don't want to do this anymore. And what we look for is, well, there's a very good reason. There's a very good reason why your nervous system is doing that.
Let's unpack it. Like you said, there's a how. And it's always some kind of payoff or benefit at one point in time that our body did this, decided to tighten up this space or clench this or that, or this behavior became a way that we helped ourselves regulate. And that's a switching of the gears from condemnation and judgment and thinking that whatever it is that we're doing, example that you're using other people are doing is wrong.
And instead asking that question, how is it that this makes sense? Like you said, how is it that it's perfectly reasonable? And I also like what you're saying about it doesn't have to condone or agree to simply understand something. We can understand why we binge eat and still want to change that behavior. But understanding it builds that ability to have compassion for it. And like you said, build that bridge so that there can be some kind of resolution, there can be some kind of creative solution to the challenge at hand.
J: Absolutely. And so then take some of the things that are really problematic, addiction, abuse, none of it saying it's okay. But if we understand and we know from research, the majority of people who are involved, they come from backgrounds.
If we don't at least understand this is coming from somewhere, it was normalized through their experience, or it's the only way that they had modeled to them, then it gives us an entry point for connecting with them at a human level versus just bringing whatever our lens for thinking about those things to bear, because that's not how they're seeing the world. Yeah, so they're experiencing.
A: So there's this extension. I'm hearing like an extending of grace, like we're basically taking a moment to pause. I'm imagining putting myself there right now with someone I disagree with. You're taking that moment to like pause and hearing all the noise that goes going on in me, which says, oh, they're wrong, they're wrong.
They don't have it right. And taking that pause to offer the question, well, how are they experiencing this moment where that's what they're coming up with? What did they experience in their life or their culture that informs how they see this moment? Is that kind of what you're saying?
J: Yeah, absolutely. And so again, I think this is one of the places where some types of somatic practices are so valuable, because as those who work in the space, whether for themselves or with others, no, the body can only be right here and now. And so it can't be like in the future, it can't be in the past, it holds on to things from the past.
It might be responding based on what we're anticipating in the future, but it can only be here and now. And so if I tune into right now, in whatever way that works for me, I think there were so many good, you know, body-oriented practices and whatever works for someone is the right approach.
But anything that lets me be, you know, whether it's just running my fingers, there's a wooden table that my computer is on right now. If it's running my fingertips along the surface of the table and just really paying attention to the texture, and that helps me be very present, then I get out of the space where it's more mental of there's a way things should be and there's a right and a wrong.
And it lets me be just here and now, and then just really tune into what's the frame of reference from which this person is responding? What's the worldview that's behind this? And if we understand that culture is learned, shared patterns of ideas and behaviors, you know, again, it doesn't cause anyone to act a certain way, but it's still sort of the context in which they've grown up. And so whether it's culture at the large level of the entire society, whether it's the culture of their family or their peer group or their workplace, it's still what have they learned, you know, is the way to get by as far as how to think and how to do things.
Okay, that's where they're coming from. They didn't just sit down one day and make it up out of nowhere. And we all have things which it's like, why do I do it that way? At some point in time, it made sense to us. It might have been when we were preverbal infants and we never even realized.
So, you know, again, it would be a tangent, but all the work on attachment styles, those are things which made sense based on what your experience was when you were preverbal even. And, you know, it's not right or wrong, but it does it really serve you now? And that's where there's then like, you know, achieved secure attachment, if you're willing to put in the work and interact with people in that way.
A: Right, right. So a system upgrade or like a shifting of how we do things, you know, and it's interesting because we, you know, so many times people can see that in others and want that for others. But it's another thing to take that on yourself, which is really the only thing you have control over. You could look at like Aunt Martha and be like, oh, she needs a system upgrade. Like I understand why she has these views, but she needs to get with how things are now. But you can't force that on anybody.
It has to be a experiential process. And, you know, the other thing I want to ask about here is, you know, the intersection of like our, you know, our pains, you know, another word for that might be like our traumas or the things that we're holding onto that causes suffering and how if we're getting immensely triggered or upset by something that someone else is doing, even if it's just like an opinion that somebody has, I personally feel that it's coming from an unhealed place inside of us that's kind of screaming for attention that probably has been screaming for attention.
And then this person here who has an opposing viewpoint is the catalyst for that scream to kind of be heard. And it's, it's something more for, you know, me to investigate rather than to expect, you know, their viewpoint to shift or change to, you know, accommodate my experience. I give you an example. Like I met this woman at an Airbnb, an older woman, and she at the surface level was going on and on about like immigration.
And, you know, we should have a wall and like, why are we letting all these immigrants in? And she was very, very heated about it, you know, and at a different time in my life, I could have been reactionary and then like, Oh, well, no, you're wrong. And then had this political argument with her, right? But instead, I just kind of leaned back and like listened to her because I felt in her physical presence that there was like some real turmoil, pain under the surface here that wasn't really about this issue.
And as the night went on, and she had a few more glasses of wine, and then the room emptied out, she ended up telling me that her daughter had died. And some story that she had seen about some immigrant killing some young woman had triggered her. And those things had somehow gotten linked for her, because her daughter had died at like 29 or something. And so now this was linked in her and she was, that was the charge that was underneath this.
Now, I didn't like coach her in that moment, I just was present with her humanness. And I saw the, the, the little bit of overlap that had been created in her experience. And I was like, Oh, okay, so that's where that like pain was coming from. That's where that charge was coming from. But on the surface, it just looked like a political argument, you know, but there was something deeper going on.
J: Absolutely. So I had a really interesting semi parallel to that. Back in March, I was in Sao Paulo. And had danced with someone who on that night was commenting that some of the head motion was a bit painful. Like they were just tired and was like, Okay, you know, great, let's, you know, keep dancing and I won't lead any more of it. I mean, afterwards I said, thank you for telling me, you know, I appreciate that. And they came back to me a few days later and said, you know, no one's ever thanked me for that. And it like gave me a chance to like realize I could voice what was right for me and what wasn't.
Okay, great. And then because of that, we got into a conversation one day when we were training. And I started to talk more about some of the ideas we've been discussing about like how who you are as a person and relating authentically and like having empathy for the person and, you know, connecting with the person. So I'm leading or following a partner, not a movement, you know, great conversation.
Now comes the parallel. The next night that we were out dancing, we'd already danced that night, it had gone well. But then she came back to me a couple of hours later and said, I have some emotion to process, can we dance? I said, yeah, sure. And as we went on the floor, I said, you know, look, as you know, first of all, like, thank you for the trust and the honor.
And, you know, I'm comfortable with the space and emotions. So even if you start crying, I'll keep dancing unless you tell me anything else. She said, yep, exactly that.
Okay, great. We started dancing, it built, then she just broke down sobbing. So for a song and a half, I just hugged her in the middle of the floor. The sob subsided and we went back into dancing.
And then I could feel anger and rage and hurt and those other things. Okay, we didn't actually talk about it till about four or five days later. The underlying issue for her, she and I disagree about the geopolitics involved and which side things are on. But I don't need to agree with her to have empathy for the human suffering that she was experiencing and feeling. I can feel for her, I can support her and recognize this is a human who's suffering, a human being who is feeling pain.
I don't need to agree with how we interpret governmental actions to still understand that this person has pain. And so I think it's a perfect example of rather than jumping to the intellectual judgment, connecting at the human level is part of how we start to build bridges and make it a better world.
A: Wow. Yeah, that's a really special experience to get to have with somebody and for her as well, because there's just not a lot of men in the world who are open to that kind of expression. I feel like there maybe is more and more of an awakening to men being that open emotionally, but I think it's also incredibly therapeutic when someone can find someone who can hold that space for them as a man in the world. Do you have any feelings about that particularly, being a man in this field of study and how other men might see you or how you feel it relates to your identity?
J: I mean, some obviously. I think now I'm not overly worried with how other men see me, but that's not to say it wasn't an issue and that it hasn't been at different points in time. I'm someone who did not grow up dancing at all, all through, I never went to high school prom, all through college. I didn't go to dances. It just wasn't my thing and even when I first started, it was because someone I was interested in at the time was into it and I'm like, okay, if I'm going to impress her, I better learn this.
It was like I put my hand where and even like touching a shoulder blade, but it was. It's been a process and one of the things that in my academic research on dance that I actually learned and found very interesting at the time, especially like say in the late 90s, it was a point in time where at least in North America, there was a lot of confusion by a lot of men of like people want me or women want me to be chivalrous, but yet if I hold a door, I get yelled at that they can hold their own. I'm not saying that's true, but that was the experience a lot of people were feeling. Yet in the dance context, it was like, I know what my role is.
I know what I'm supposed to do and so it was comfortable. And so you found a lot of people coming into it. And so I have found that for myself, with time, with getting more experience, with gaining an awareness of who am I and how am I showing up and what's important. And I'm older than a lot of the people I dance with.
And so one of the things for me that I had to really do some work on was I don't want to show up as the creepy old white guy who's dancing with younger attractive women. Like, sure, I may dance with them, but that's not why I'm there. But I then held myself off from interacting with people and maybe connecting or maybe even dancing in some ways that otherwise would have felt more organic because I was so concerned about that judgment. And it was a couple of the people I know in the dance world who sort of said, is that why you're there?
And they knew the answer. They're like, so why are you taking that on? And why anyone who knows you know that's not who you are. But I think there's a really interesting point that goes back to your point of that people are also mirrors for us.
So part of what I'm doing in Bali right now is there was a retreat about three weeks ago, a Zook embodiment retreat where it's not just dance from the technique side, but from better person, better dancer, better dancer, better person. And so some of the instructors also come from Tantra and they weren't teaching us Tantra for Tantra's sake, but what are some of the ideas that we can bring to how we interact and relate to other people?
One of those instructors happened last year, happened again this year. He is incredibly inspirational to me with just some of the freedom of just maybe not in dancing Zook, but like just dancing emotions, just the freedom. And it's like, whoa, that person is so embodied in this moment without any concern for judgment.
It's inspirational and it's a goal. But then there's other things that they do that drive me up the wall. But they're both gifts because it's why do those things annoy me.
What about it is bothering me? And I think there's a sort of a nuance or another layer I want to build on what you said. Sometimes it's a mirror for things in myself that I haven't fully addressed. Sometimes it's not, but it's still based on something in me. So one of the things I noticed that happens for me is sometimes it's something that's upsetting me.
It's like, okay, what part of that is like, do I not want to shine a light on? But sometimes I have a very strong protector instinct. And sometimes it's not bothering me, but I see the impact it's having on someone else and that there isn't a container or a cushion for them. And I really react strongly to that. And I'm like, but that's still a lesson for me.
Like, what is it about that? And that tells me how I want to be in the world. I want to be someone who's not causing triggers unintentionally like that.
I want to be someone who when I see that then goes to that person and offers a landing space or a safe harbor. And so again, sometimes it's about something unhealed in me. Sometimes it's not, but it's still about what matters to me and my values.
And it's not just judging them. Oh, I don't like that. Oh, I think you're wrong. It's, wait, why is that bothering me? What is that bringing up and use that as a learning opportunity of how I want to be in the world?
A: I love that the contrast that we get to return to what's important to us when we see something happen that's not how we would want to be. It can be that perfect compass kind of back to where we're headed and how we'd like to reorganize ourselves. Because often too, when I see, let's take the example of other yoga teachers and how they're teaching a class and I might have a judgment about that.
It's again, reorienting me to how I want to teach, how I want to show up. And it doesn't mean that what they're doing is wrong. There's probably half a dozen people who might even like what they're doing and like how they're approaching this because that's their medicine at the time.
They need a little bit more tough love, but I'm at the point where that's not my medicine anymore and that's not the energy that I want to put out. And so again, that kind of beautiful learning through contrast, reorienting to that trajectory that we're really headed on, that five-year, what did you call it? Future? Future casting.
Future casting. Yeah, like looking in that direction. We can use all these little moments in time to kind of put us back towards that path of where we really want to be and how we want to be. And I think that also what you described in terms of your awareness that people could be judging you a certain way, it's funny because stuff like that can totally become like a somatic self-fulfilling prophecy because when we're anxious or nervous about something, other people are going to pick up on the anxious nervousness, but they don't know what it's about.
And so I've experienced that before where it's like, oh, I'm nervous and anxious and now I'm coming off in the exact way I don't want to to this individual because there's this going on in me of trying to negotiate with my nerves. You know?
J: Yep, absolutely. And so last year when I arrived for this retreat, one of the instructors, like I was debating whether I should say something, whether I shouldn't, whether I should just let it ride. And so the first day after the opening ceremony, I pulled her aside and I said, look, I think this is probably just a story in my head, but I need to check it out with you. She said, what? And I said, have I done anything in the past year that's upset you or offended you?
And if so, would you please let tell me what it is so I can try and make it right? And she looked at me like I was crazy. She's like, what are you talking about? You've been to my mother's restaurant in Rio de Janeiro. We've stayed together with a mutual friend in San Jose, like what? And I said, look, we haven't danced in a year. I've asked you more than one time per event, multiple events in multiple countries. And in any one moment, you need to drink a water, need to take a break or, you know, need to whatever it is. It happens.
Like I don't take that personally, but it's been a year. So I understand this is probably a story in my head, but that's why I'm wondering. And I felt it was really important to bring it up, because if I didn't, I was going to be questioning the whole time if there was something, which means that's in my nervous system. That's how I'm interacting with her. And it causes some of the interaction to be this awkward, distant, not as connected.
And, you know, she was able to clarify, like there's absolutely nothing had just happened that way. We ended up still not dancing that whole event. And I think it was like another half a year until we did. But like totally opened the channels of communication.
There was no issue. Then this year, she had taught a new workshop about something about connecting from the heart. And she was going around the room after that workshop was over. And I was sort of one of the last people and she said, thank you so much for being here. And I said, thank you for being you. And she started crying a little bit.
But it was this full moment thing where if I just hadn't addressed what the concern was. And just to tie in another piece of it, I taught a workshop on authentic presence and connection, but for within a dance context at an event in the Netherlands Easter weekend, she was there. And one of the first things I said to the whole group, I was talking about like how we show up influences to dance more than any technique. And all of these amazing instructors who are here, it's how they show up as people. And I went through the instructors, she was one of them. And I told the story with her in the room.
And she was then one of the two instructors who helped me demonstrate the exercises. But none of that becomes possible. If we don't recognize what are the things that in our nervous system are saying something doesn't feel right here. And rather than telling ourselves stories, telling ourselves stories about what we think the other person is telling themself, you know, there was something that was a point of tension. I went to her and, you know, tried to figure it out. Sometimes you can sometimes you can't, but you can always try.
A: Right. And I mean, that that trying though, like what you did, some people are terrified of that. Some people are absolutely terrified of that kind of just, in a way, it's like a casual level of vulnerability to basically just expose, hey, I'm having thoughts and feelings about you.
And I don't know whether they're real or not. But I want to open the dialogue so that, you know, this can shift in some way, you know, like that openness that you had, that if there had been an issue, you know, that you wanted to hear it, that kind of, I would guess it's one way to say like emotional maturity, you know, because you can't really imagine like, you know, a five year old kid having the ability to go up and just be like, hey, what's the deal? You know, like, is there something going on?
Because I'm having this internal thing, but I don't know if it's real, you know, what you're demonstrating in this kind of conversation right now and through your actions with this teacher is just that it is possible to show up in that kind of vulnerability without it being heart wrenching, without it being terrifying, just being real, you know, and I think there's a lot of people who struggle with that. But when they break through to that point where they can, they can let people know, you know, it's huge. It's a huge opening into a new way of, you know, connecting with that individual, connecting with themselves, allowing themselves to be seen, right?
So it's a great story. And I think it's not, it's not just a easy, simple task for some people. And for some people, they've got to work up to that, you know, and get to a point where they are secure enough in their own experience to ask those questions. But I love that you're modeling this and you're sharing this, and you're exposing people to that, that kind of, you know, way of operating. I think it's so important.
J: Thank you for that. And at the time, it was a challenge. Like, I was still working in the direction of being able to do it, but it was like, do I do this, don't I?
But recognizing what was going to be the impact on me, my experience, all of our interactions, if I didn't, because I'd been starting to question whether this had been something was there for a year, and it wasn't going to go away on its own. What's the worst case scenario? The worst case scenario, she confirms there's something and isn't willing to tell me, well, okay, at least I know I'm not making it up, at least I know there is something. And then I can at least say, if you're ever willing to tell me, I'd like to know.
But I can put it to bed, it's not an open loop in my head anymore. And I also want to, you know, revisit the point you made about like judgment of others, right? And how, you know, it's possible to judge another teacher, I know when I first moved, my last academic position was at the University of Arkansas.
And I wasn't an amazing salsa dancer back in the day, but I came from a strong scene in San Diego, there was not the same level of dancing in Arkansas. And when I first showed up, I was really judgmental about the first person I saw teaching, because I was paying attention to, you know, the techniques and how they were explaining it, and what they're, and I was like, this person has no business teaching. This was my thoughts. And I was very fortunate that a friend of mine called me out on it later.
Professional ballroom competitor, once upon a time, had been part of, you know, one of the first performing salsa teams out of Los Angeles. And at a certain point, she's like, look, I didn't even get to interact with these people, like just as themselves, because you'd already colored my perception of them. That's not cool.
And then when I was like, you know what, you're right, and I stepped back from it. Sure, this person's level of understanding and technique left a lot to be desired. But if I didn't jump into it with judgment, which was really my own ego, making me feel good about what I knew, this person was being really generous.
They were sharing everything they knew. There would not have been a scene in that area if they hadn't built it, and they hadn't volunteered their time energy effort to grow it. And I was not at a point in my life where I was mature enough yet to be able to get out of my own way to see that and recognize the value they were adding, and that they only know what they know.
They only have the resources that they have, and they were being incredibly generous in trying to share it. Yeah, I've done enough work to not beat myself up for being where I was at the time. But it's definitely one of the things that I've taken with me of like, I want to be really careful and not make that type of mistake again.
A: I love that. And it ties back perfectly in with this idea that we can give grace to those around us that we don't understand. Again, this idea of looking into what is it that they are bringing?
What is it that they are doing? And why does that make sense from the background and the experience that they come from? And I also think it's very human and normal to have judgments. And the thing is, is that when we have judgments or we make mistakes, it's an opportunity for us to pivot and redirect and learn something that then can become part of our nature over time. So it's not the end of the world if we catch ourselves or someone else catches us in a quote unquote petty behavior because we're human. And everybody's judging and having thoughts and feelings and reactions.
And it's about how do we navigate those more and more skillfully as we gain better awareness of ourselves and better awareness through what other people give us as feedback, right?
J: Absolutely. And I think it's so key that whatever comes up in our system, like, don't judge it. It's what's coming up. Like, there's foods. So food is a great example, right? There's no culture on the planet that eats everything in its environment that's nutritionally viable.
All cultures create categories that some of the things that have some nutritional value are food and that some of it isn't. But yet we grow up with it and then we look at like, how could you eat that? And like, maybe you stop being, you know, judgmental at an intellectual level, but like, you still sort of might, you know, viscerally recoil if someone put it on a plate in front of you.
That's okay. The question is, what do you do from there? So when I hear certain things, when I'm exposed to certain things, the fact that I have a reaction based on my history and what I've internalized from my own experiences, the context around me, there's no reason to attack that, to judge it in others or in myself, but it's okay.
But now, where do I go from there? Now, if there's really a tension in me, I can turn to somatic practices and different types of processing and go, okay, let me release that. And now, you know, how do I want to be here? How do I want to direct with this person? What do I want to do in this space? And then be really intentional and deliberate about that.
A: Yeah. So maybe you could take us through like, you know, just even like a mini, you know, lesson or mini example, you know, of if someone comes to you and they're like, hey, you know, there's this issue coming up for me, you know, what would you do to start orienting them, you know, maybe out of their head and more into their body? What would be some of the things you would offer?
J: Yeah. So if it's really on the somatic scale, then I think the most powerful tools we have are the senses, right? And so I'd given an example before of touch, like, again, it could be the ridges on the wood, it could be ridges on my fingertips, it could be if I'm doing the dishes, you know, the temperature and the different textures of the plate versus the sponge versus the silverware, if it's touch, if it's sight, just let my eyes travel around the room, the space, and just wherever they are light, let them be there and just investigating whatever it is until they feel like moving on. If I'm going to dance with someone and I'm, you know, intimidated or stressed out, rather than having this story about how I should show up or I'm supposed to, if it's visual, look at the color of their hair. It's not a flat color.
There's like nuances to, you know, shade and highlights and, you know, all of the, like, is each actual strand the same color as the one next to it? Like, just tune into something. If it's sound, okay, I have noise canceling headphones on right now, but yet I can still vaguely hear the air conditioner in the background blowing very lightly. And it's quieted down while we've been on the call, but I'm at a home stay.
So there's a family compound of Balinese people I'm staying with. And so little earlier, you know, I could hear the kids playing out there. And right before we got on, I could still hear one of the chickens over there. And, you know, so just listen, not trying to hear anything, but just what is actually there when you're listening just to listen or when you're hearing just to hear without trying to make sense of it or assign meaning to it.
And again, you can do the same thing with taste with smell. Again, whatever sense works for you, if it is in the moment and you're having your coffee, how many different senses can you bring to bear? The warmth on your hands of the cup, the taste and what are all the notes to that? Like it's such a complex flavor. The warmth, not just on your hands, but going down the back of your throat, where on your tongue and in your palate are the different tastes registering? What's the aroma of it? What's the mouthfeel of it?
You know, there's oils in it, and that's different from the water. Anything that's in this very moment that I can use my senses to attune to help me land here and now. If someone has a lot of stress, I think one of the things that's a very common adage, but doesn't make any sense, is take a deep breath. If I'm already tense and holding stuff, how much breath can I take in?
I'm already tense. Exhale as deeply as you can. Blow out all the air you can, blow out more than you think you can. Now I can take air in. Now if I take a full breath and I hold it for five seconds, that compression is almost like giving a little bit of a hug to the vagal nerve complex.
There's some type of reassuring. If you're someone who's interested in or familiar with some polyvagal theory, what are different anchors that I can use for different states to help regulate? Is there a particular object? Is there a color that helps me remember?
If I'm someone who gets really heated, but because of cultural associations, blue is cool or calm, do I have something that's blue that's like a paperweight on my desk that when I feel myself getting heated, I can look at it and help me regulate my nervous system in that way? Those are just some of the little things that introduce to people.
A: I can definitely see. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead.
J: Yeah. No, no, no. Okay. I mean, just as orienting points to just even begin to get in touch with some somatic awarenesses before we even start to investigate where things are showing up in the body itself.
A: Yes, yes. That's making a lot of sense. I feel like I'm getting little beautiful overlaps of mindfulness practice and Tantra and the way that bringing our awareness into our physical body in the moment, like you said, can be that grounding force that starts to allow our nervous system to tune to what's happening now versus the tigers and the lions and bears of the stress going on earlier in the day that we're still holding on to or earlier in the year or 10 years ago that we're still holding on to and coming back into the safety of right now in this moment, whatever amount of it is available for the person's nervous system.
Yeah. So I think it sounds like you have a wide range of different tools that you can meet the person where they're at with what they're willing to do. That exhaling makes sense to me. How I usually start with people would be a small movement and we figure out what conscious contraction of muscles and then really, really slow releasing of them feels good to that person.
So I might try a couple different movements and then within a couple different movements, they know they're like, oh, this one feels good. That one didn't feel good. And we do what feels good to keep just start telling their nervous system, oh, it's actually safe to be here right now. It's safe to be inside my body right now. Yeah.
J: So I mean, there's a lot of, I'm not an expert in organic intelligence, but I've been exposed to some parts of it. So there's a lot from organic intelligence that overlaps with what you're saying. Like, where is it that there's ease?
Yeah. Where is it that like, there's even the possibility of a pleasurable sensation. If someone's like comfortable and wants to work in somatic space, I'll do a form of a lead in and a body scan sort of based out of a version of Hakomi practice. And so guiding awareness, starting with the feet and up the back of the legs and all the way back and across the scalp, down into the chest and down into the belly.
But again, just tuning into it as we go and then just noticing like what sensations are you aware of and not assigning meaning or anything using very clean neutral language. So just asking them to describe it, not even suggesting, you know, how much does it weigh or what color, because that could be leading for people who that's not how they perceive it.
They might feel like they're supposed to have a color, but just letting them sense it and then helping supporting them in just sort of exploring it for themselves, not asking them something, but guiding them to ask that of their own sensation. Totally. Just seeing what emerges there. And again, I think one of the really important things to recognize is the nerves that run from the brain down to the rest of the body.
There's a difference from those versus the nerves that run from the body back to the brain, as far as the amount of myelination. So that, you know, sort of, if you think about an electric cable and there's that wrapping around it that insulates it, well, that's the sort of fat that goes around to the essentially that goes around the nerves. There's more of that insulation that goes from the brain to the body.
And so messages, I mean, it's fractional, but messages from the brain to the body travel faster than from body to brain. And so that's why it's so important to slow down if we're really going to allow the body to speak to us and tell us what it needs. And that's why some of those calming practices and those grounding practices are so important. So we create the space and enough quiet to listen
A: to get that feedback actually tell us. Yeah, totally. You're speaking my language here. My practice is all about the focusing on the slow release of conscious contraction. And it is the slowing down that actually allows our brain to bring a signal that inhibits the firing of motor units.
I'm talking all the neurophys speak now, but basically get the muscle pattern or the tension pattern to cease is through slowly releasing the movement so that the brain is actually sending that signal because you're right, it doesn't happen instantaneously. We can get feedback from our body if we open those channels, we can get it really quickly.
But in order for our brain to make that connection to make a change, you know, in our distal areas, you know, if it's actually going to be cortical and not from our spinal cord, it needs to happen slowly. We need to slow down and make space for that awareness to actually occur for it to be a conscious activity versus a reflexive activity. So I could go way into that with you. It's so super fun.
I love that you're really talking about this from a lot of different angles. You know, if people were wanting to follow up with you or learn more about your coaching practice or your offerings, where would they find you? Sure.
J: Sure. So my website is StepsAlongtheWay.Global. And again, Steps Along the Way because I think how we all end up where we are and how we are is the steps we've taken to get here.
But to live our most deeply meaningful and fulfilling lives, it's being deliberate and intentional about the steps we take next. So StepsAlongtheWay.Global to just get more information. And then if anyone's interested in just exploring what their next step is, complimentary, no strings attached, no pitch involved, 30-minute steps to chat.com.
And just your next step, chat. And if after that you want to explore how maybe I can support you more, great. But if that does it for you, then great because then how you show up in the world is part of a ripple impact that I can have as well. So StepsToChat.com, if you just want to hop on my calendar and StepsAlongtheWay.Global, if you just want to learn more about me and my offerings in general.
A: Oh, fantastic. Well, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you today. I feel like we covered a lot of ground. I loved how personal you were willing to get with everybody and share some of these, personal stories that kind of demonstrate the larger picture of what you're talking about in terms of being able to pause and notice what someone else's experience might be like and build that compassion and awareness. I think that's just exactly the medicine that a lot of people need in the world today. So thank you.
J: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and I really appreciate the opportunity.
A: Beautiful. Hey there, friends. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I would love to hear your thoughts. Follow me on Instagram @AimeeTakaya and send me a DM about this episode. I'd like to thank you for being part of this somatic revolution. And if you'd like to support the podcast and help more people learn about somatics, consider leaving a review or a rating.
And finally, if you'd like to have the experience of relief in your tight hips or back and learn to understand what your body is really saying to you, visit YouCanFreeYourSoma.com. I can't wait to share with you what is truly possible. Bye for now.
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