Ep11: Body Neutrality and Confidence with Chronic Illness

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Have you ever thought about what happens when chronic illness or disability intersects with body image, confidence, and building a successful life?

In this week’s episode,  certified body image coach Lacey Nagar Ammerman shares her deeply personal journey of navigating muscular dystrophy while building a thriving business and meaningful relationships. 

Lacey takes us through:

- Why body neutrality is a more achievable and sustainable goal than body positivity for people with chronic conditions

- How Internal Family Systems (IFS) helps unshame the parts of ourselves we've rejected or judged

- The unique challenges of building confidence when your body's abilities are constantly changing

- Practical strategies for showing up consistently in business when you have limited energy or capacity

- Simple modifications practitioners can make to be more inclusive

And so much more!

Lacey Nagar Ammerman is a Confidence & Certified Body Image Coach, IFS Trained, and an author and mentor. Her mission is to make a difference in the lives of women through confidence in their bodies, businesses and relationships and supports them to show up fully, speak up, be seen, and ask for what they really need so they can create their $8K months in business and healthy, yummy partnership.

Connect with Lacey:

Website: confidenceandmagic.com 

Instagram: @gracefulrisingcoaching 

Facebook: facebook.com/lacey.nagar

Connect with Aimee:

Instagram: @aimeetakaya 

Facebook: Aimee Takaya 

Learn more about Aimee Takaya, Hanna Somatic Education, and The Radiance Program at⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠www.freeyoursoma.com⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠

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A: Hey there, listener. Do you or someone you know struggle with a chronic health condition or a disability? Maybe you also struggle with body image challenges on a daily basis. What are some interesting and powerful ways that we can start shifting the narrative that we are experiencing and how that is being expressed in our physical body? 

Today I have Lacey Nagar Ammerman who is a certified body image coach, IFS trained for those of you who don't know what that is you'll find out and a confidence coach who is on a mission to make a difference in the lives of women through confidence in their bodies, businesses and relationships and support them to show up fully, speak up, be seen and ask for what they really need so they can create their 8k months in their business, their health and a yummy partnership. So there's a lot here. I hope you can join us for this incredible conversation. Stay tuned. 

A: Every day, there is a forgetting, and every moment there is the possibility of remembering. Remembering who you truly are, awakening to your body, to the inner world, to the experience of being alive. Here is where you find the beauty, the joy, and here is where you free your Soma. I'm your host, Aimee Takaya. I'm here to help you move from pain to power, from tension to expansion, and ultimately from fear to love. 

A: Thanks for having me. 

A: Yeah, thanks for being on the show. Yeah, there's a lot of ground I think we're going to cover here today because there's some very I think great and fascinating intersections that you explore in your work with body image challenges as it relates to chronic health, as it relates to disabilities, which I think really is an area that a lot of people aren't necessarily connecting or exploring those intersections. 

So maybe that's a great place to start in terms of a question today. What is different about body image and confidence work when you have a chronic health issue or when you have a disability? What has to shift and change in the approach to working with these ideas? 

L: Yeah, great question. So I think for me, something that was really challenging was I took a lot of trauma courses, I took body image courses, I took sexuality and sensuality courses, and they were all great and wonderful, and not one of them talked about people with disability, which I found so interesting, right? Like we're missing this entire swath of people who may have chronic health issues, disabilities, limitations of some kind, whether that's temporary or like ongoing too. 

I recently talked to someone who was pregnant and she was telling me like she's having a lot of these things happening right now, right? But it was frustrating for me. And also I felt like I was the one that always had to ask the questions of, but how do I do this if I can't move my body that way? How do I do this if I, you know, that thing is painful for me? Or if I can't even get into my body because it's so uncomfortable because of chronic health issues and body things that have just been going on for my entire life, right? 

It's sometimes it's really hard for us to drop into our bodies semantically when we have chronic health things and disability things because we distrust our bodies because we have had such challenges for potentially decades. So yeah, I think one thing that's really helpful for me that's really important is a lot of like we can do a lot of body image techniques, similarly, but I think it's really important to remember that number one, a lot of times people with like chronic health issues specifically, the trauma is happening over and over, right? 

Like we're constantly continuing. And the same thing with the body image piece of that, like let's say you get used to your body the way it is. And then something happens, like for me, for instance, with a chronic muscle disorder, maybe I lose an ability, something that I could do a month ago, I can't do anymore and all of a sudden I'm adapting again. And I'm trying to feel neutral about my body again, when something has just like taken me out again. So it's like an ongoing thing. And there's never really an ending to it. 

A: Yes. And there's, I think unintentionally, there's probably kind of an ableist angle that a lot of these trainings come from because they are privileged enough to perhaps be a practitioner who never had to deal in their own body with those kind of challenges. And so they maybe don't know how to relate to what you're experiencing. 

So it sounds like maybe you have become the person that you needed to fill that space in the conversation. And I don't think that people who are out there working in these different kinds of somatic modalities where it's like, oh, sense in and feel this, feel that, they know a certain flavor of human suffering. Like they absolutely do. They know what it's like to feel insecure. They know what it's like to feel lost or confused. They may even know what it's like to not want to be in their body, but they may not understand it at the same level that you understand it. They may not understand it as this thing that is not just going to shift as they start to connect with their body and feel better, right? 

Because when you have a chronic health condition, or as you described, you have a muscle condition. And then there's these other layers of challenge that you're facing on a regular basis. Like it's just going to require a way of being with yourself that has, I would say, layers of perseverance, layers of sensitivity that not everybody has had to develop. Right? Not everybody has had to create that level of sensitivity towards themselves. Yeah. Yeah. 

L: And I agree with that. And obviously no shame. We can't all be experts on everything. And this is kind of why I've taken this on as a niche, right? I feel like we're missing people who need some of this and need someone who might understand it. And I'll also kind of out myself here that it took me a really long time to get here. Like I also kind of didn't want to do this work. Part of it was there's so much diversity even in disability and health and body things, right? And so I was like, okay, but my experience may be completely different from someone else's experience, even with the same disorder or condition. 

And so there's that piece too. So I can totally understand why people wouldn't because it's like, we're going to miss someone always. You know, it's so hard to kind of tap into everything. But what I wanted to say about that was I think one thing that can be really simple for practitioners is to just like, there's always a knocked out option. 

And there's always modifications given, right? Where it's like, maybe, because then I don't feel so bad about not being able to do the thing that they're telling me I need to do. Or even the simple things like, you know, let's stand up and do this. Well, it's easier for me to sit because then I might not fall randomly and hurt myself, right? So can you just say sit or stand? Like, that's just a modification. So little things like that, I think can be helpful for practitioners too. 

A: Did you know that your muscles are holding onto thoughts, memories and feelings? 

A: If you have a tight neck or back, you're not just getting old. 

A: You're experiencing a buildup of tension from the life you've lived. Most people don't know this, but 

A: there is a part of your brain that can reverse and prevent chronic tension. When you relax your muscles, you not only move better and regulate your nervous system, but you also free yourself from the 

A: grip the past has over your body. 

A: So you can live with freedom, confidence and enjoy your life now. 

A: How does that sound? Join me, Aimee Takaya, and discover what my clients are raving about at youcanfreeyoursoma.com. 

A: Oh, absolutely. And I mean, I have someone currently in my six month program who has several chronic health issues, and I let them know right from the start, it's all very optional. I don't usually allow this, late cancels, but for our one-on-one sessions, I know that you might not be able to do it that day. And so I give you that special permission to late cancel with me if you really can't get the energy to do the one-on-one work that day, which is an exception that I'm offering this person because I understand that they're having different kinds of challenges. And as a somatic educator, it's my job to be sensitive to that and to accommodate that. 

And so I think what you're saying is really true. These tiny little micro shifts in our language, and in our approach, can make a world of difference to somebody who has probably spent a big portion of their life trying to catch up with or trying to... I don't want to say compete, but I feel like we are put in that position by society to compete, but I may be catching up or meet the standard of a way of being or a body type that they just can't really ever catch up to, right, or ever compete with. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah, totally. 

L: Yeah, I always talk about my people, we're further back from the starting line. We're not given all the tools everyone else might have. It doesn't mean we can't catch up, but that's actually why I do this work. I want to get you to that starting line that even playing ground so that we can actually have the best experiences in business and create our healthy, yummy partnership. But yeah, I kind of talk about it like a starting line, right? We're just a little further back and we just need to move up a little bit. 

A: Yeah, yeah. And so I saw that you are trained in IFS, and I think that that must be a really powerful modality and tool to use within the framework of what you're up to. Would you maybe explain for the listeners who aren't familiar with internal family systems what that is and why do you think that it has been particularly helpful for you and for clients? 

L: Yeah, so I am slightly obsessed with internal family systems. I just came across that actually I think I was doing a trauma training and there were several different people talking about different modalities and trauma like EMDR and all different kinds of things, and neuroscience and all the cool fun things. 

But one thing that I really, really loved was the talk that I heard on IFS. And basically internal family systems is parts work. So it is, it has the idea that we all have a self, right? We're born with this self energy. It can't disappear, it can't go away. It is kind of like our higher self, our courage, our confidence, our curiosity. And what happens to it is it gets overshadowed by other parts. 

So kind of thinking like the cloud in front of clouds in front of the sun, right? It just gets overshadowed. These other parts come in, these fears that we have, these doubts that we have, beliefs, things that have been there for decades. And they're all things that are, they have a good purpose. 

The parts always have a good purpose and intention. And they only do their job because they don't know how to do anything else. And so they're trying to protect us. And that's why, you know, like let's say in business, for instance, a lot of my clients maybe can't show up on video or put themselves out there in pictures because of body or health stuff. And it's like, like, what are the fears coming up around that, right? 

What are the beliefs that are coming up? So we get to go in and we talk to the parts or feel them or however they're kind of showing up and experience them and get to know them and acknowledge them and figure out kind of what they need to perhaps if they're ready, but they absolutely don't have to like shift their role a little bit, which can just remove so much resistance. I even use it a lot in my relationship. 

I have an IFS therapist and I use it a lot in my relationship. Like the way I might react to something from my partner like a trigger is almost always a part, right? It's something that's been there for years, something that we're reacting to maybe from childhood. And so to be able to go in and talk to parts and see what's going on, and then they can soften. 

And then we don't have those reactions or those beliefs. And we can go take the action that we want and show up the way we want in our business and relationship. So in pretty much all of my programs now I do coaching calls and I do IFS calls. So like totally broken up, we have calls just for coaching. 

We have calls just to go talk to parts. It's so powerful. My clients love them. And like I said, I've also been doing this work for a lot of years and it's just very special. And probably one of the most powerful ways that I have seen to really start moving those fears, those doubts, those beliefs that have been there for potentially decades, right? 

A: Wow. Yes. And I recently like kind of like three years ago, I think I learned about internal family systems. I met and had a wonderful collaboration with a woman who's now a dear friend of mine, who's a somatic therapist. And she did parts work with me and I found it very powerful because the thing that I found like really, for me at least, and maybe you can speak to this, like unshaming the things that seem negative, my fears that might judge or shame myself, were like, oh, I shouldn't be afraid. I shouldn't feel this way. 

It makes me weak to be afraid. Or I shouldn't be angry. I don't have any right to be angry in this situation. I'm being petty. 

I'm overreacting. Like these ways that we kind of like gaslight ourselves or shame ourselves for the reactions that we're having. And what instead I experienced in parts work was like, oh, there's like a very good reason why I might have this feeling. 

It was very validating, right? And this part of me that I have shunned or this part of me that I have rejected is actually in my service at the end of the day. It is trying to, like you said, protect me and getting in touch with kind of the love that's actually at the basis of a lot of our unpleasant emotions. It's very parallel with the work that I do. We look at like physical stress patterns. 

And a lot of times we will condemn or vilify like our posture and the way that our body has shaped and formed. And in the somatic work I do, it's very much like bottom up, less talking about it, more sensing and feeling. It's like, what if this was an expression of my body's intelligence for how to move forward, even though there are obstacles, even though there are limitations that I've been presented with? 

And so I think that what you're describing with using internal family systems in this way would be a very powerful thing for someone with a chronic health condition or with chronic pain, right? Because they've likely have shamed themselves unconsciously even for what they're experiencing. And this process to me was very much an unshaming kind of process and acknowledging like the intelligence of our nervous system, the intelligence of our physical body. 

L: Yeah, I love that. I agree with all of that. I think that's actually one of the things that turned me on so much to IFS, which you basically you just stated very beautifully is like the non-shaming Dick Schwartz, who was kind of the founder, creator of the process of IFS, has a book called No Bad Parts. 

And that basically says it all, right? It's like, there's no such thing. And we're talking about like, you know, suicidal parts, addictive parts, homicidal parts, like they really believe the theory believes that there are no bad parts. They're doing something for a reason, which can be hard to get behind for some people. But when you can go in there and figure out what it is without the shame, like you're talking about, that's when something's going to shift, right? It's not going to shift when we're shaming it. So I do think that is a huge part of that. 

A: Yeah, absolutely. Right. And so then in terms of like what it means to run a business, right, and be someone with a chronic health condition or a disability, you talked a little bit about the visibility piece, right? 

Like how is it? How can I be comfortable to stand up and be seen and heard when I have these challenges that maybe society views as, you know, like negative, you know, society might view them as like, you know, something's wrong with me. And to put myself out there, like feels like putting myself up to scrutiny or to judgment, right? And there's all this noise that goes on in a person. 

But there's also another piece of it, which I would love to hear you, you know, share about, which is, if you're someone with a chronic health condition, you might not have the capacity. You might not have the energy to show up in the same way as another person who doesn't have that challenge. Like your physical body might literally not be able to like perform day in, day out. So how do you help people kind of manage that element? Is that part of your work as well? 

L: Yeah, definitely. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. So I think those are kind of the two big ones, right? The visibility piece, which was huge for me, like I was afraid of mean comments and people judging my body because it had happened in real life. And then you put yourself online in front of who knows how many people, strangers, you know? 

And then the second part, yeah, is the, I usually refer to it as a consistency, but like, how do we show up consistently, quote unquote, whatever that means for you in a way that works for you and your body and your health stuff. And so a lot of times I am working with my clients around these things. And this could be true, by the way, for women who maybe have small kids or are taking care of elderly parents or just have like time constraints as well. 

So if that's you, like this is all applicable. But essentially, we're talking about really two things. One is like, how can we create systems that can allow you to be consistent even when you can't show up for maybe days or weeks or months at a time, whether that's, you know, like Google Docs or having repurposing content somewhere that you can just grab posts, you can show up two or three times a week or having a team member do it. And then the other side of that that I work with my clients with a lot, which is a lot of the confidence work is, or sometimes you just can't. 

And how are we okay with that? Like, how do we give ourselves grades for literally not being able to show up because we just can't. So those are kind of the two sides of that that I work a lot with clients. 

A: Yeah. And giving ourselves that selfs that grace is sometimes a lot harder than it sounds. Like it's one of those things that like you don't just do it once, you have to kind of like practice it, you have to keep allowing and giving yourself grace and kind of like unclenching that feeling that you, you know, are failing or that feeling that you're not getting it right or, you know, like all the stuff that comes up. 

And I'm sure with, you know, the themes that you're, you know, exploring here with disability and chronic illness, those patterns go way, way, way back. Right. Like you said, we didn't start at the same like, you know, the starting line was different. And so, you know, the patterns of why can't I do what everybody else is doing and not giving yourself that grace internally, even if your parent or your teacher is giving you that grace, right. And so it sounds like this goes off in a lot deeper for your clients than just what's happening now. 

L: Yeah. And a lot of times, depending on like when the chronic illness started, depending on when a disability might have started, maybe they were born with it. Maybe it was something for me that happened when I was like 12. And so, yeah, again, though, why like that parts work is so important too, because that's where you can kind of go in and talk to those parts that have been there for a long time. 

A: Yeah. And then, you know, you were sharing a little bit in, you know, the information for booking this call about the way that the kind of other areas of your life that are, we would maybe describe them as like, you know, non-physical, although I don't really believe that they are, right, our business, right, and like our partnerships, our romantic relationships with others, you know, what are some things that you see shifting for your clients, right, for people who have like chronic illness or disabilities or are having body image challenges when they start to do this unshaming work, when they start to give themselves more grace. How does that express in their relationship or in their business in, you know, in a way that is helpful? 

L: Yeah. So I think some of the business things we kind of just touched on, like their ability to perhaps feel better about showing up and putting themselves out there for speaking up for saying what they want to say in their business, for coming up with a way to show up somewhat consistently and feel okay about and good about whatever they're doing, which usually then becomes, you know, selling out their programs and rolling more clients, being able to hold the clients that they have. So that's another piece too, is like, we're actually planning for what is the capacity that we can hold here. 

And that's like a big part of the strategy for business. So being able to make the money that they want, but in a way that really works for them, I would say is like one of the biggest shifts. And then as far as relationships, a lot of like being able to speak up and ask for what you need, like really need, being able to have the hard conversations maybe about your body, especially, you know, if I'm working with women who are dating and not in partnership yet, that can be a big one. It was really hard for me to go on dates, like in person, because I was so afraid of what people were like, they would know, like you said, that there was something quote unquote wrong with me, right? 

They would know that something was different, and then I would have to have that conversation with them. And like that can be hard, and you're having a million times when you're dating. So being able to have the hard conversations, asking for what you need, being present there, again, in a way that works for your energy and capacity. And hopefully, like, you're with someone that understands that, right? Like, that's part of the confidence and worthiness piece of it, I think is like, how do we also find a person that is going to understand this and support us and maybe be okay when we can't show up and do something or have to cancel something. So a lot of the communication skills, a lot of the more like connection with their partner, and really just again, like feeling more confident to show up and say what you need to say and both areas. 

A: Yeah, absolutely. I think that when we have a relationship that we're showing up to, we're showing up to it with all of ourselves, even if we're not aware that we're showing up with all of ourselves. So we're showing up with our fears and we're showing up with our wounding and we're also showing up with all of our magic. And it's about maybe being able to be all of those things at once and not have one thing hold you back or try to only be one thing, try to only be the confident part of yourself or the attractive part of yourself. 

But as you said, go on a date and be real with people and have those difficult conversations and allow yourself to be more vulnerable. I think that's amazing that you, first of all, that you as a human being were able to push through and make these big changes and leaps in your consciousness. Would you tell us a little bit about how that process was for you? I know you're still in it because it's one of these things that's never over. But where did you start from in the first part of your young adult life and then where did you end up? How did you end up where you are now? Yeah. 

L: So I mentioned this already, but I'll just go back to my diagnosis with a form of mustard dystrophy when I was 12. There's still no cure and there's still no treatment and that was 28 years ago. 

So that's also just a side note that I think is important because that can also come with its own frustrations and anger that I think is important and valid for people with disabilities and chronic health issues. So I mean, from the very beginning, it was like I didn't want anyone to know there was something different. I came from a very small town. 

Everyone knew everyone. I didn't want anyone to know there's something different about me that I wouldn't have considered a disability at the time because it wasn't affecting me in so many ways when it first started. But I had to stop playing sports. Running was not a thing. Stairs became harder. Walking long distances became harder. So through college in my early days, those things were kind of always declining. And so I mentioned earlier some days you can do things and a month later you're like, oh, shit, I can't actually do that anymore. 

That's very terrifying because then you're like, what does that mean for the future? So I never talked about it with anyone except for you know, perhaps people I was dating and like my parents just to maybe they would ask what was going on or if everything was okay. I actually published a book in 2013, which was like my kind of coming out with this. It was a memoir. And it just had like a bunch of stories from my life of like different experiences that I had or conversations that I had or things that were embarrassing or just like little snippets to kind of like share my most traumatic moments on paper. And I actually started my business like two years after that I was kind of into the professional development world. 

And I was kind of like getting into this, the mindset pieces and I loved neuroscience and all the things that are that like prove that we can actually like improve ourselves and perhaps change parts of our health or parts of things that we want to change. And the challenge became I couldn't actually show up in my business. Like I was also terrified of showing up on video and like posting a picture like was not a thing. So that was kind of where I started with this was I wanted to help other people who were struggling with that part in business. And I became like a visibility coach first. That was kind of the thing that I did. And then as I was doing that for multiple years, I was, you know, dating, I started putting myself out there and I was having the same issues and dating, right? I was like, I can't show up. 

I don't want people to see me like this is really awful. But I started to realize that the work that I was doing in the business stuff was actually rolling over to dating and like being able to show up there and it was building my confidence. Like the confidence work that I was doing was building my confidence in both areas. And, you know, eventually I obviously met my partner, we're now married and the work still goes on in relationship, right? So now I feel like I can really talk about that in a different way. 

Like similar, but a little bit different in the confidence pieces of showing up, having hard conversations, being more vulnerable, connecting more deeply. And so I could just see the through line of the confidence in all the places. And I was like, Oh, this is important. And the work is so similar that it's very easy for me to kind of talk about like, whether you want for it in your business or your relationship or both, the body image and confidence pieces are going to be the thing that are going to help you get there in a way that's going to perhaps shift things that you have never been able to shift before because that was how it was for me. I really do believe that like the self-esteem, the confidence pieces, without it, we can't take action. And so we're not going to show up in the ways that we want to show up. Absolutely. 

A: The word that comes to mind as you're describing like the intersection in of our business and romantic life is worth. You know, how are we perceiving our worth in the world? 

Right. And what's challenging our sense of worth? And how can we look at those things that are challenging our sense of worth and connect with them, invite them to show us their wisdom, you know, there's pain behind that, there's a memory, there's a specific kind of situation that I was once in that, you know, felt a certain way that I haven't realized it, but I've been holding on to. Right. 

And how can I hold that experience and allow it to soften and shift and transform and kind of like integrate back into the whole? Right. So that it's not preventing me from having that conversation or showing up in the way that I, you know, know in my soul that I'm ready to show up. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. 

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's, you know, obvious you've been in this a long time, you know, 2013, 2015, like it's an ongoing journey. And I know you said earlier that, you know, the different challenges even within your niche are going to be varied. And yes, you can't understand like every single person perfectly. But I think that when you have this kind of longer form, sticking with it, continuing to bring in clients and work with people, like you do build, you know, an understanding of different kinds of conditions. 

Right. What are some of the kind of like chronic illness or health conditions or disabilities of some of your clients and how, you know, what have you learned about those issues, maybe how they affect people like, you know, specifically or how it relates to the work that you do. 

L: Do you give us some examples? Yeah. So some of my clients, it's really more about body image things, right? They're really just struggling with feeling good enough in their bodies, feeling like they want to show up and be seen. 

For some of my clients, it's things like fibromyalgia, you know, kind of like overall body things that might somehow affect fatigue, like they're really fatigued, they can't show up, they're sleeping all the time. Like I said, sometimes, you know, women who are pregnant or it's like a temporary thing, but they're kind of going through some of these things. So it just depends. It just depends on and like honestly, sometimes I don't even ask exactly what it is. They're just kind of telling me the symptoms. 

And so that's why I'm kind of like struggling here of like, I don't know that I actually know every single thing that a client has been struggling with or been diagnosed with. Sometimes they share it. Sometimes they don't. 

What's more important is like, how's that showing up for them and how is it affecting them and are there ways that we can work with it or acknowledge it or work around it that'll be most helpful for them in their business or relationship? 

A: Yes. I mean, and fibromyalgia is another one that I think, you know, for a long time people had this idea, oh, it's all in your head, right? Like because it's something that we don't have like an immediate like solution for with modern medicine. At the same time, like anybody who has experienced fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue knows how much of the physical somatic experience it is. So to minimize it by saying, oh, it's in your head, same thing with women who are going through a transition and a period of time where their body has changed, its needs have changed, right? Like there can sometimes be this attitude of, well, oh, it's just temporary. So get over it. 

But it sounds like you're taking this as like an opportunity to dive deeper and to readjust and like basically build a more nuanced connection to your physical body and its needs, regardless of like the actual, you know, condition or the actual challenge that's happening, right? Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. And so in terms of building confidence, you know, what would you say to someone who is having a really hard time to like how they look, for example? 

L: Yeah. So one of my favorite things that I learned in my body image certification, which is I think not that commonly spoken. And so I try to say it as often as possible. But the goal is always body neutrality. It's not loving your body. 

And as someone with, again, a chronic health condition, I think this is so important because it can feel impossible when people are like, oh, we just have to love ourselves and love your body. And it's so wonderful and beautiful. And it's like, okay, but like you were saying, right, yeah, I'm in pain every day. 

I can't get out of bed. Like how do you know what I mean? Like it feels impossible. And so I think the body neutrality is just a really important place to start for a goal. And in the sense that like you do not ever need to love your body, body neutrality will give you enough confidence to be able to show up and do the things that you need to do or want to do. 

So one of my favorite tools, and well, one of my favorite form of tools, there are many tools within this is mirror work, like ways to be in front of a mirror to maybe give yourself a compliment to give yourself a wink in the mirror to even if you notice something negative first about your body or appearance to see if you can just move to something neutral, or maybe something you like, but it doesn't have to be can just be neutral. So I do a lot of tools with my clients that are like, you know, kind of going through your entire body from your head to your toes, listing each part out, saying how you feel about it, and then being able to notice like what are the things that you do feel neutral about so that you can at least go there if you need to. 

I think I still go to negative things first when I look in the mirror, like I want to point that out to is I've been doing this work for like 10 years and I it's still my brain goes there. But I can also pretty quickly shift to like, oh, but like I like that or oh, but I feel neutral and have no feelings about, I don't know my nose, for instance, you know what I mean. And so it does kind of just start shifting and like moving the pendulum a little bit when we can start to like pull ourselves out of the negative so much, even if all we're going for is neutrality, I think it's a really, really great place to start for feeling a little bit better about your body. 

A: Thank you. Yes, I agree. I think in my early 20s, I really tried to embrace the body positivity movement. And it felt like a mask. It felt like fake a bit, because the truth was that I didn't always feel like I loved my body or that I was beautiful. Sometimes I had these negative thoughts and being able to kind of embrace the neutrality, right, or just allow myself to be without having to jump all the way ahead to like thinking good thoughts. Sometimes it was just too much of a leap. And when I would try to force myself there, like I said, it felt like I was putting on a show or putting on a mask. And that's not authentic. That's not what we're going for, right, to be phony with ourselves. 

L: Yeah. And I think sometimes I can also have like a backfire, right, where it's like, oh, we love this. And then it's like, oh, but we don't. And then we feel guilty for not. And then all that other shame and negativity. 

A: Right. This makes me weak. 

L: And, you know, yeah, I'm supposed to love myself, right? Yeah. Which also one thing that I like to say to my clients is you can love yourself without loving your body, which I think is also an important piece of like, there's so many things that make us up as like a soul, a human being, and it's not all just our body. 

And so I think that that was a very helpful thing for me to realize of like, I can feel neutral about my body and I can still love myself as a whole person without having to love my body. Right. 

A: Yeah. Yeah. And also, kind of this concept of beauty or what beautiful is, what if we were to deepen or kind of dimension, bring more dimension to that concept? You know, like I've thought about this a lot with like, people I've worked with who have strong judgments about like certain pieces of their body, like their nose or their stomach or, you know, these things. 

It's like, well, what if beauty wasn't just how it looked, but it could be like the sensations, right? That when someone touches my skin in this area, how does it feel? You know, how does it feel to receive touch there? Oh, it feels good. 

You know, this particular type of touch feels good. Well, okay. So that's beautiful. 

Right. What is what does that part of your body do? Oh, it smells, it smells things, right? 

Or it digests your food, right? And so that is also beautiful that it supports your life or that it supports your experience of being alive. You know, so we, like you said, tend to focus on the external and give these labels or these terms like beauty, you know, to an external way of experiencing our bodies. But it's so much deeper and richer than that when we can connect with like the beingness, right? And also the function of our bodies, right? So then there's a new definition of beauty. It's a new definition of, you know, what it means to even be confident, right? Maybe we don't feel confident when we look in the mirror and we fixate on this one area of our body, right? 

But, you know, even in the case of, I don't know, like your shoulders or your neck or your face, it's like, it serves a purpose, you know, and that purpose might be powerful if we can connect with the purpose of having this, this body, right? 

L: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. 

A: Yeah. Well, this is really cool. I love that you are really kind of focusing in on body confidence and noticing the way that that relates to both our ability to be successful in our business, but also have relationships, you know, in relationships that are fulfilling. What do you think are some of the challenges that a lot of your clients are coming in with when it comes to their relationships that, you know, can get shifted when, you know, you already went into this, but maybe we can touch on it a little bit further. 

When someone isn't able to say what they need, but they have needs and they're feeling like resentful or frustrated about not having those needs met, right? What are some of the ways that they can start working with themselves to actually be able to say what they need, to even know what they need, right? 

L: Yeah. I love that. That's a great question. So I think there's a couple of things. One is like clarity on what they actually want and need. I would probably ask them, you know, to give, to go deeper. 

I'd probably ask a bunch of questions about it. Why they want it, right? Is it something they actually want? 

Or is it something they think again that you're supposed to have that we get a lot put on us from society? And one thing that I also like to talk to my clients about is like, let's talk about the things that you can compromise on and the things that you can't, or the things that you could do for yourself or that you really need from a partner or the other person. Because sometimes we can do some of those things for ourselves. We can kind of be meeting our own needs, which usually then allows your partner to show up even more anyways. And so I always kind of try to start there of like, what is actually important here? Can we compromise on anything? 

If not, that's okay. But like, let's figure out what it is we actually need. And then a lot of times we actually will kind of dialogue the conversation. And then I'm like, okay, so I'm your partner. 

I say this back to you, what comes up, right? So we're having the conversation so they can sort of practice asking for what they need or saying what they need to say. But I do think like the clarity, knowing what they really want and can they do that for themselves? And where are they not willing to compromise are also really important things to know. Yeah. 

A: Yeah. And I think sometimes we can be a little bit afraid to name those things we're not really to compromise on. That can be a very scary process to go, oh, this is actually like, kind of, you know, a deal breaker for me. Right? Yeah. 

L: Yeah, especially if you're already with the person or you've been with them for like years or decades, right? But that could also lead to like more ideas about like, it might look a different way or maybe this is something your partner will come back with and you're actually okay with that. 

And you didn't even have the idea or the thought that that would be okay. So I think like just starting to explore it kind of opens up more options as well, which can be helpful. Right. 

A: And possibilities because there can be, I mean, and I'm speaking for myself here, like certain kind of hard lined like, knows that we experience that, you know, aren't the end of the story. It's like we sometimes we just needed to be able to fully say that no, right, to be able to fully just reject something and say no, and, you know, give ourselves that option. And then once we do that a few times, it's like different. 

And it doesn't feel like such a strong deal breaker no anymore, once we've allowed ourselves to go there and like name it, right? Yeah, totally. Yeah. 

Beautiful. Well, in terms of, you know, how you do this work, right, with people, do you work with groups? Do you do mostly online work? What's kind of your best medium that people are interested in working with you? Yeah. 

L: So I work almost completely online. I do one on one. And I also have a mastermind, depending on when there's errors, I don't know what will be going on. But doors are open right now for a mastermind, which is a group program. It's small groups. So it's only eight women. And that was on purpose, because there's a lot of one on one calls in there as well. 

So I find that for my people, one on one is really important, especially around like the body and confidence pieces. And so every program I have has some element of that right now. Beautiful. 

A: Yes. I think the hybrid of group and one on one work is really where it's at, because you kind of, you don't miss anybody. Nothing falls through the cracks, because you're having that one on one time. Whereas sometimes in a group, especially if people are used to kind of hiding, people can hide in a group and not have their needs met or have their issues kind of addressed, because every group will have people who are more willing to share and willing to talk and people who are kind of reserved and holding back. Yeah. 

L: And I think especially around bodies of or health things, it could also be maybe people just don't feel comfortable talking about that in a group setting. So I always want to give the option to of like, you can just talk to me one on one about that. If that's, I tend to think that's the most vulnerable thing, maybe like relationships would be for someone else or the business would be for someone else. But either way, that's why I think it's great to have one on one too. 

A: Fantastic. Right. And then so what's the best way for people to connect with you to get ahold of you? 

L: Yeah. So my website is confidenceandmagic.com. Great place to go see, you know, what free events I have going on and also like ways to work with me. Also, my Instagram is Graceful Rising Coaching. So same kind of thing, like you can see obviously everything in the bio about, you know, free resources, what's going on right now as far as working together. And then obviously just share like reels and videos and all the tips and tools that can also be helpful if you're just starting out. 

A: Thank you. Well, in kind of closing our conversation today, maybe I'll ask one more question, right? What would you say to someone who's feeling exhausted with their healing journey, who's feeling like it never ends and they're getting frustrated and they're getting tired that there's always something that they're working on? 

L: Yeah, I hear you. We've all been there. Yeah, I mean, I think the answer is kind of annoying in that it is an ongoing thing. I mean, there's never an end to it. I mean, I always said about confidence work rate, there's no magical spot when you're going to feel 100% confident about everything in your life, and it's all going to be perfect. 

Like that's never going to be a thing. But I think if we can enjoy the journey more, use it as like learning, be bringing in some of the like pleasure things like you were talking about like touch for somatics, like the pleasurable things in our life on our journey, I think make it more manageable. And so maybe not just focusing on that end goal, and kind of really enjoying the pieces in between celebrating those, experiencing those in the pathways that we know how. 

A: Yeah, I love it. Taking it from just this idea that I'm working on myself to that, oh, I'm also enjoying my life. I'm also enjoying myself. That it's not just this never ending work. It's also being in my present life and enjoying my life. I like that. 

Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been a beautiful conversation. And, you know, I love what you're up to in the world. 

I think it's really important and needed this niche. And I'm glad that you, you know, worked through enough of these challenges yourself to be able to show up this way for other people. 

L: Thank you. I appreciate that. 

A: Hey there, friend. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I would love to hear your thoughts. Follow me on Instagram @AimeeTakaya and send me a DM about this episode. I'd like to thank you for being part of this Somatic Revolution. And if you'd like to support the podcast and help more people learn about somatics, consider leaving a review or a rating. 

And finally, if you'd like to have the experience of relief in your tight hips or back and learn to understand what your body is really saying to you, visit youcanfreeyoursoma.com. I can't wait to share with you what is truly possible. Bye for now.