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EP58 - Solving The Dating Crisis with Kevin Chinn

Updated: Apr 15





Navigating the dating world can feel awkward. Often, both men and women are filled with uncertainty, confusion, and sometimes heartache.


We live in an era dominated by digital communication and fleeting connections, making the quest for genuine intimacy and meaningful relationships challenging. 

Today, I host Kevin Chinn, a digital entrepreneur, problem solver, and dating coach who offers insight and powerful solutions to men grappling with the complexities of modern dating.


In this insightful episode, Kevin Chinn takes us through:

-His journey of growth, transformation, and learning to be a human being.

-Importance of basic social skills and the fundamentals of human interaction and emotional connection in today's dating landscape.

-How his interest in spirituality was sparked by his mother's battle with breast cancer.

-His early experiences with heavy, existential concepts and how they shaped his young mind

-The ways in which he overcame his struggles with depression, addiction, and anxiety.

-The practice of conscious dating, self-awareness, and understanding others to foster deeper connections.

-Insights into his various niches, all rooted in his desire to help people overcome challenges and grow.


And so much more!


Kevin Chinn is a Social Scientist × Modern Day "Hitch" - Dating Was Awkward, I Made It Simple.


Freebie: Take the Masculinity Quiz: Find Out How Attractive You Are To Women(link: https://datescience.mykajabi.com/signup⁠).


Follow on IG @date.science


LISTEN WHILE READING!

A: Every day, there is a forgetting, and every moment, there is the possibility of remembering. Remembering who you truly are, awakening to your body, to the inner world and experience of being alive. Here is where you find the beauty, the joy. Here is where you free your Soma. 


A: Hello and welcome to Free Your Soma, Stories of Somatic Awakening, and How to Live from the Inside Out. Today, I'm here with Kevin Chinn, who is a human being but also a digital entrepreneur, a problem solver and a dating coach. 


So he works with dudes in their 20s, 30s, 40s who feel lost and confused about the dating world, and he helps them bring back basic social skills and the foundations of human interaction and connection that have been lost, not just because of the internet but also because of our kind of isolated productivity-focused society. 


And we're going to be unwrapping all of that today including Kevin's own personal journey of growth and transformation and just learning to be a human being in this world. So, thank you for being here with me today, Kevin. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. 


K: Holy shit, that was the best introduction I've ever had. 


A: Great, yeah. So tell us, like, you know, you, I've been following you on Instagram and Facebook for about two years. I think we got connected when I was sort of stepping into the facilitation world and starting to share my own stuff, and your content is just like so personable and real and honest, and you're just a very talented copywriter; I've got to say, you know, and you've shared, you know, I've gotten to the opportunity to read about your story a few different times, different iterations that you've shared, but maybe for our audience that's just, you know, meeting you for the first time today, you can tell us a little bit about your journey. 


K: I would love to. Okay, so my name is Kevin Chinn. Hi guys, nice to meet you. I was born in California, and I'm an only child. I'm an only child, Libra. 


So everything that you're thinking about me right now, it's true for sure. Yeah, I grew up my. I was really close to my parents. I've always been really close to my parents. They're both still alive. Like I said, I'm an only child. 


So there's not a lot of other dynamics, just like our little triangle. My mom got diagnosed with breast cancer when I was like eight, which was obviously really big for the family, but it was really big for me because she was like, holy shit, I might die. And in that place, she decided that I needed to get into spirituality, little eight-year-old Kevin, because she's like, if I kick the bucket, I want to have a way to stay connected with my son. 


And I don't know what your beliefs are about, like reincarnation or about, you know, whether you can clearly communicate with people in the afterlife, but my mother wanted me to understand that there was more to life than this. Like that, there was that there was other stuff going on and that if she were to die from this earth to disappear from this earth, that it wouldn't be the end for our relationship. So I started reading like Deepak Chopra and Eckhart Tolle and stuff like that when I was in fourth grade, very, very young, which opened a lot of portals for me, a lot of gateways and other stuff. My mom survived breast cancer. 


Thanks for asking. And I started smoking weed pretty shortly after that. I was like 11 years old when I started smoking weed every day, which just continued to further, like, you know, expand my consciousness. If you want to call it that, it's easy to look back retrospectively and say I was doing it from a spiritual place. But realistically, I was. I was just trying to get high. 


But it did introduce me to a lot of new ideas and concepts that people my age weren't really grappling with yet. When I was 16, is this the kind of intro you're looking for? 


A: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 


K: I was like, did she want to hear about the business? When I was 16, my best friend died. He suffocated at his sleep. He suffocated with asthma. And I got really, really depressed. I was really upset. I was really sad. I didn't know how to process my emotions. 


I wouldn't learn how to do that for another decade. And my doctors put me on Xanax. So, I started taking two Xanax a day, 60 a month, for the next seven years. I started drinking in college. I joined a fraternity, shouts out. And so, at this point, my life on paper was really good. Like I had a good education, I had good grades. I had a lot of friends. Outwardly, I was doing just fine. But inwardly, I was an absolute mess. 


Like I couldn't get through the day without Xanax and alcohol and weed and other party drugs a lot of the time, too. So, I spent years in this haze. I graduated, I moved down to Los Angeles. I went to school for music business. So I went down to Los Angeles. I worked at a record label. I worked at a couple of studios. 


I worked at CAA, shouts out Kathleen Kennedy. And I moved back up north, and I decided that I was going to quit drugs. And so that was challenging, to say the least. But after a couple of years, I finally managed to get clean. I've been sober for like five years now. I'm 31. 


So it was from like 23 to 26. And I still smoke weed. So don't come at me if you see me posting stories smoking weed. But hey, oh, you said he got clean. I still smoke weed occasionally, but not like I used to. But yeah, around that same period, 23 to 26, I got into ayahuasca ceremonies. I got into international travel. I really just started exploring the world and the universe at an even deeper level. 


And after all of that, I came back. I was actually in India. I was in India when the pandemic started. I got deported from India. That's a whole separate story. But I got deported from India. And I came back and I had been bartending in Seattle, which I was no longer able to do because the bars weren't open. And so I was like, fuck, what am I going to do for money? 


How am I going to deal with this, this Maya? You know, I got to exist in this capitalistic society in this, in this material world. And I decided to start an online coaching business with all of this random knowledge that I had accumulated over the years about quantum mechanics and the laws of the universe and whatever, whatever, whatever. So I started a coaching business, initially helping people with anxiety and depression, same kind of stuff that I had overcome in my life. 


Overcome. That's like it's ever really over. But so I started that business, and it was going pretty good until the bubble burst. In 2021, everybody and their mother wanted to become a coach. People realized that the pandemic wasn't going away as quickly as anyone had hoped. And so everybody wanted to start an online business. And so at that point, people started being like, you know, fuck your anxiety coaching, like teach me how you started your coaching business. And so I switched from that original business was called One With Life. So I switched from One With Life to Set Yourself Free, where I taught healers and coaches how to run their online businesses. 


And so that's probably about the time when you and I first connected. I did that for about two and a half years after the bubble kind of died down. And the hype about starting a business online was over. I realized that even though I love marketing, I love writing, I love helping people get their message out to the world, that my passions lied elsewhere. Maybe they had shifted, maybe they had never been that. 


Who knows? But the point is, September 16th, 2023, I decided to solve the dating crisis. Like I said, I'm 31. So I'm like, tried and true 90s baby millennial. And I just realized that so many people in America, but honestly all over the world, just aren't having a good time with dating. They're not having a good time meeting people connecting with people; they're getting closer with people and getting vulnerable and then getting ghosted. It's not going well for most people. 


It's disastrous. And even the people who are in relationships, a lot of the time, they're not happy. They're in a relationship because they don't want to be alone and deal with that whole dating process. And so they settle for, you know, six out of 10 relationships, and we'll probably get into measurements. I don't measure humans, but I do measure connections. 


And so yeah, I was like, none of this makes sense to me. I've always had great relationships. I've always given my all. I've always loved fully and really enjoyed the process of falling in love and just opening myself to the world. And it seems like in the same way that in 2021, a lot of people wanted my help starting a business. Now, a lot of people want my help connecting with themself in a way that allows them to connect more deeply with other people. That's what I'm here for. 


A: Awesome. You know, that last line you just said, I think, really kind of brings it all together, which is that we can only connect with other people if we know how to connect with ourselves first. And that's what I'm seeing a lot in your content, you know, the kind of the term conscious dating kind of comes up because that's really the most satisfying way to date is to date with awareness of yourself and others so that you actually have success at what you're trying to accomplish, which, you know, is usually like human connection and intimacy and honesty and being seen and all of that stuff. You know, that's not going to come when we're just running through our, you know, patterns of behavior of how we do things in our life that's probably kind of dysfunctional, right? 


You know, and we will we'll be getting into all of that today. You give us such a really powerful picture of the kind of where you've come from on this path. And I just want to go back to, like kind of the beginning of your story where you're talking about this really, you know, existential crisis that you were thrown into through what happened with your mother, right? Like that is so life-changing and huge to be eight years old and have to kind of deal with these really big life questions. 


But I think in a way, like it was probably this incredible, bizarro gift because you were also given these really big questions and all these really big ideas when you were still in your child's mind, where there was still a lot of openness and plasticity and creativity that was going on in your development. So it's like kind of a traumatic thing to go through, obviously, even just being presented with those questions, being presented with the possibility of your mother, you know, dying in front of you, right? 


That's all super traumatic. And at the same time, like, what an incredible gift to be given those opportunities to think about these kinds of things while you're still in this super creative, like I said, plastic place in your brain. And I can even see like a lot of that still in you today, just like, you know, you're able to go deep, you know, with people right away, because you kind of know what it means to go deep. 


And I think that foundational experience, you know, even though your mother didn't end up passing away, was such a huge, like point in your life that kind of I can see a line all the way through to where you are now in terms of your ability to make connection, right, connection to yourself, connection to others, connection to a higher power, and that thread that comes all the way down, like if we're getting really yogi with it right down through the crown, all the way down into the earth and connects us to the here and now, right? Hell yeah, thanks for noticing. 


Yeah, yeah, it's great. And you know, the other thing here that I would love for you to maybe extrapolate on a little bit is how all these like niches that you have gone through are related. How do you think they're all related, like other than just being like representing what you've gone through in your life? 


K: Yeah, I mean, they're all about helping people. At the end of the day, I'm, you know, a life coach, and I'm so grateful to be alive in the turn of the millennium because 100 years ago, 200 years ago, I would have been an aesthetic, you know, I would have been a renunciate, I would have been sitting in a cave in the Himalayas because my particular passions and skill set wouldn't have translated into a job that could have made me mine. But now it's like, it's just about evolution, it's just about growth. 


So it's like wherever I'm at or whatever level I have just overcome really, is the level that I'm now ready to help other people with. And the truth is that people are always going to need help with anxiety. People are always going to need help with business and marketing. People are always going to need help with relationships. And so I just go wherever my heart is like burning the most passionately. That's what I decide to start selling stuff. 


A: Right. Well, I mean, the anxiety coaching you were doing, like, there's a lot of anxiety involved in building a business, right? And getting through those mental and emotional blocks that keep you from getting the things done because you're stuck in like a perfectionist mindset that comes from a place of unworthiness, blah, blah, blah, right? 


And then to know that right streams right into the dating world, there's a lot of anxiety that people have to overcome, right, to put themselves out there and create, you know, anything meaningful with another person, they got to be vulnerable. So I can see how all those things are super related and they come from your embodied lived knowledge that you've already gone through. 


K: I tried to, yeah, I tried to never teach. I try to teach from principles that will be applicable universally that I acquired through my own experience. So there's not the kind of stuff that I try to speak in ways that people can't refute. I love a good philosophical argument, but I'm tired of, I learned very quickly not to come on the internet talking about either something that I haven't already done for myself or something that hasn't already worked for somebody else because as soon as you talk about generalized knowledge that isn't tied to your own experience and is absent of client results, people go apeshit, the internet goes nuts, people just start like trying to tear you apart for all sorts of stuff, and it's like, okay, we better just present the facts here. 


A: Right, yeah, speak from your own experience and like you're basically kind of not going to, you're not going to be wrong if you're speaking from your own experience. You're not going to be incorrect. You can say something from your own experience and be like, hey, that's just, that's what I experienced and someone else is going to relate to that. But when you start masquerading around like you know the truth or something, or you know how it is, then people are going to call bullshit naturally. 


K: Yeah, and that's always been the cornerstone of my content is like, here's my experience, here's my story. If you want to run a business the way that I do, if you want to build relationships the way that I do, then I'm obviously the right person to help you do that. I'm not here to say this is how you should live your life and this is how people should conduct themselves. It's never been like that and I think that the response has always been positive because of that. 


A: Yeah, the other thing I think is so great about your story is that you are really, you know, you're sharing the truth like you're sharing maybe your addiction recovery journey. I've, you know, read content about that, and then you're also being upfront that like, hey, like I still like to have a good time with like the green every now and then, right? 


You're being a real person with us, and I think people really appreciate that because they feel like if you're being real with them about the stuff that you've gone through that's hard, you know, about your own things, like you're not going to judge them for whatever it is they're going through. There's a sense of safety that we create for people when we share openly about our journey, right? Even the stuff that's not very pretty or that somebody could judge you for, right? 


K: Absolutely. And I think that is one of my, one of my greatest gifts, and often I think that everybody's greatest gifts are stuff that just comes so naturally to them that it doesn't even feel like a gift, but my ability to not judge people rather an inability to judge people has always been a blessing in that regard because people do feel very safe around me. They feel very comfortable. 


They feel like they're able to say these things that they might be judged for in other settings that they can't say at work, that they can't say they're significant other that society might live down upon them for, but I'm just like, I know this is real, man like it's all good. 


A: Right. It's part of being human. Like, we are going to go through all kinds of experiences, and if we spend a lot of time trying to discern constantly if they're good or bad, we miss out on like what it is that they are, which is often a mix of good and bad or pleasant and unpleasant or however you want to, you know, describe the polarity. Yeah. Can you go into a little bit of that? Like, how does that relate to our relationships that we have? 


Like, there's a lot of, you know, things out there like this nomenclature of like red flags and like now people are also talking about the opposite, like green flags, you know, things that we look for, you know, in our relationships when we're starting out that kind of give us clues as to what like might lie ahead. Can you talk a little bit about like the whole dynamic of, you know, green flag, red flag and people looking for these kinds of things and the value of that and maybe the trouble with that? 


K: Yeah, absolutely. So I went to a small liberal arts school, a private school, cost a shitload of money and the greatest thing that I learned from that whole four-year experience was my professor said, Kevin, you get to define success for yourself. So, as far as success in a relationship, as far as green flags, red flags, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, you can't look around you for permission on what makes sense to you. You can't say, hey, what are the red flags I should look out for? 


Or what should I gravitate towards? I just saw somebody on Instagram yesterday talking about you shouldn't date nurses because nurses work long hours, and they're likely to cheat on you with the doctors that they work under. And I was like, what kind of generalized but I was like, this guy either dated a nurse and got hurt. So he got he had one specific experience that now he's projecting upon everybody else, or he's never even seen a nurse before. And he's just making all this up. 


I'm like, what are we talking about here? So, to answer your question, there's no one size fits all. There is no universal green flag other than this person loves themselves. And there is no universal red flag other than this person hates themselves because everything in between is going to be different on a case-by-case basis. 


Again, I hinted on this earlier; we'll go into it now. We live in a culture because of movies and Playboy magazines where we rate other human beings, right? Look at my body. I'm a 10; look at my face; I'm a six; look at my whatever, whatever, whatever. I think it's all ridiculous. I think it's all relative. 


And so it doesn't really hold any weight anywhere. And I think what the real rating is like if you rate a person, it's your relationship to that person. And that I do personally see validity in because I don't believe in toxic people. But I do believe in toxic relationships. I don't believe that anyone is evil. I don't believe that anyone is bad for everyone around them. 


With that said, there are definitely people that are bad for you. And there's definitely people that are bad for me. And when I say bad, bring it all the way back. We're coming full circle to my professor's statement. Bad is not like morally or ethically an issue. It's not an issue between you and God's Source Universe. It's not an issue like that. It's just, is this person and our relationship together aligned with the direction that I choose to go? 


And that's it. You can't grade people or rate people on any other merit other than how is our connection? But I think that a lot of people are so disconnected from themselves. They have no idea who they are or what they really want. They're too busy looking around at what they should, who they should be, and what they should desire that they forget to ask themselves, what's an alignment for me? Because when you really know what you're looking for on a person and you really know what you won't tolerate, i.e. your green flags, i.e. your vision versus your red flags or boundaries, then it actually becomes very simple to navigate the dating space. 


And I think this is the key step that most people are missing when they're just running around like, well, she was so hot. I can't believe that things worked out so poorly or that guy had such a good job. I couldn't believe like. How did I know he was going to cheat or he was going to beat me or something? It's like, dude, you got to look in the mirror. You got to stop looking externally for cues on who you shouldn't be with. 


A: Beautifully said. Yes. And human attraction is a really strange dynamic, I think quite fluid thing in a lot of ways. I've always, and this is me speaking from my Libra Moon, and you've just totally, Libra mentality was like full on in the last few sentences that you had. And I totally dig it because it's like, again, that non-judgment looking at the real dynamics that are going on here and making it like really, I guess, perfectly individualized, right? We're looking at like a whole person and we're looking at an individual. And it's the same with human attraction. 


I mean, I tried to make this distinction, and maybe you can tell me what you think of this when I was, like, I went with my first boyfriend or something, I was like 14. I was like, I can see someone, and I can notice that they are attractive. I can register that they are attractive, but it doesn't mean that I'm attracted to them. It doesn't mean that I want to like touch their body. 


It doesn't mean that I want to like let them stick their tongue in my mouth. Like I can look at the person and go, they are an attractive human, and I can appreciate their beauty, but I don't necessarily want to do anything with them. The thing that is it makes someone attractive to me is actually my interaction with that person. It's actually our chemistry and our dynamic is what's actually going to make me want to be close with them or intimate with them. 


It's the living dynamic, you know, energy exchange. It's not just physically how they look or what job they have, right? And at the time, you know, my young teenage boyfriend like couldn't really grasp that fully, you know, I think maybe now as an adult, you'd be like, Oh yeah, I know what you mean. But, like there may be men out there or people out there, as I say this, who kind of go, Oh, okay, because they've been focusing on the external. But what's really been going on the whole time is it's always the energy exchange and the dynamic that's leading that, even if you think it's just how hot that person is, right? 100%. 


K: Yeah, I've always said that attraction is a two-way street. And it's in that regard, it's like electricity or magnetism or electromagnetism. It's coming and going at all times. And yeah, it's really easy to be, how do we say this? It's really easy to judge the holistic attraction based on looks alone. 


Because again, then that's societal, cultural again because we live in a society where our eyes are by far our most used sense organ, like so much more so than our sight, our touch, our taste, our smell is our sight. And so when we gear our whole society towards that, all of our media towards that, it's like, okay, well, then what's the most visually attractive like people with symmetrical faces and good jaw lines and high cheekbones and etc. etc? 


And I'm not talking this is don't take this out of context is not me talking shit about beautiful people. I love beautiful people as much as the next. But we have to understand that there is no correlation between physical beauty and healthy romance. So yes, please by all means, be as attractive physically as possible, date as many and as as much physically attractive people as possible, just don't bet your fortune on your relationship just because of how physically attractive somebody is. 


A: Right. Yeah, well, it's not the whole picture of what it means to be connected to a person either because, you know, you can be with someone who's very physically attractive but is totally unable to connect with you. And that can be incredibly disappointing to, you know, maybe, you know, in this case, you like, you meet someone who's like, checks all the boxes, right? But in terms of actually being able to connect with you and for you to feel comfortable opening up to them and for the energy to actually move, it's impossible, right? And that happens. 


Macan doesn't just happen with attractive people, but it can, and it can feel really frustrating, you know, in in the case of like your clients and especially men who are feeling, you know, like they really don't know why things aren't working out for them in their relationships. What are some of the first questions that you ask them? 


K: Yeah, so I'm going to bring up a worksheet that I have all of my people do. It's actually in the course. So you can get this even if we don't work together one-on-one. Okay. So this is going to this is going to kind of segue this. I can answer the question you just asked a little more completely. 


But I want to I want to talk about this real quick. Yeah, for sure. Knowing what you need. So, the key concept here is that you get what you focus on, right? Law of attraction. 


So you have to focus on what you want. It's like the quintessential typically, it's a woman, but sometimes it's a man too. But she's walking around, and she's like, there's no good men in my city. There's no good men. They're all just assholes. They're all just dicks. They're all just dead out of the bath. Fuck boys. 


They're all just fuck boys, right? What do you think that this woman is going to continue to experience? What do you think that this woman is going to attract into her life? More fuck boys, right? 


So she has she has to take responsibility and say, look, Look, everything is out there. There's assholes, there's dicks, there's fuckboys, but there's also people who would be perfect for me. And so instead of focusing on the fuckboys and creating this narrative that I'm feeding myself about there's only fuckboys, and there's nothing but fuckboys, and I'll never get past these fuckboys, she has to move into this state of, this is what I want and I'm willing to focus on it until it shows up. 


So the questions that I have these people answer, so for me it's who is she? I work with men because it's easier for me because I've never been a woman, and I don't want to run into problems where a woman is like, well, what about this, there's something else? And I'm like, huh, I've never had that experience before. So, I'm sticking to men for now. 


So all of the rhetoric is who is she, but understand that it's the exact same process for women too. So the first question is, what sort of core characteristics are you looking for in a woman or man? These are the non-negotiables, right? Your long-term partner needs to possess these. You're not going to date women or men who do not live up to most of these standards, and you're certainly not going to marry or commit to life with a person who doesn't meet all of them. 


So then you write these down. Number two, what are some secondary qualities that you enjoy in women? These are preferences that can be overlooked if the core characteristics are present. So these will build attraction so you can have a short-term fling and they'll continue to build attraction in a long-term thing, but they're really just like flirtation devices. They're not like the most important things. Number three are some, what are some less important things? 


So these are basically just like talking points. Number four is what are some red flags? What are some kind of things that you absolutely will not tolerate? And you have to get really clear on these too. We talked about earlier how they're different for everybody, but if you don't know what they are for you, it's a very slippery slope because I was an example of smoking cigarettes. I dated a woman maybe two, three years ago who was great. She, I loved everything about her. She was so much fun, but she smoked cigarettes. And at the time, I was kind of like, like, what? 


It's okay, I guess. And it just always rubbed me the wrong way, and it got to the point where she would, like, fake like she was calling her parents to like go for a drive and like smoke a cigarette. So she's like hiding things from me because I've created an environment where she does feel judged, where she doesn't feel safe to be herself. So that's a mutual thing. I'm not blaming her. 


Honestly, I was the one who started it because I didn't establish it in the beginning. Hey, look, I don't really like cigarettes. I think that they're disgusting. If you like cigarettes, then we probably shouldn't go down this path where we create a strong emotional bond where this is gonna bite us in the ass later. The analogy that I always use, I didn't come up with this, but they talk about if two ships are leaving from India, sailing across the Pacific Ocean, have you heard this one before? Oh my God, such a good one. 


If two ships are leaving India and they're sailing across the Pacific Ocean, if they're even one degree apart at the beginning, one of them will end up in South America and one of them will end up in Canada. And so the point of that story is to illustrate you have to have alignment from the beginning. And that doesn't mean that you're not gonna be like this. It doesn't mean you're not gonna twist and turn, and you're fucking totally allowed to go off track and come back. 


But if your general paths in life are headed in opposite directions, then the distance is only gonna increase more and more and more over time. So, coming back to the worksheet, and then the last one is who are some women in real life that possess these qualities just to like kind of lock it in, but we don't need to get into that. But for me, for example, and how I knew that my current partner was the one, was here are my non-negotiables. And so, like I said, these are different for everybody, but if anyone's looking for some examples, this is what it looks like. So my non-negotiable is these core characteristics that my wife slash long-term life partner must have. 


Number one, free. Happy, kind, caring, healthy, beautiful, like inside and out, financially independent, and always evolving, right? If I'm with somebody who doesn't have all of these qualities, then our relationship has a shelf life. And that's not to say that it's pointless. That's not to say that we can't enjoy and learn from each other. 


I just know that that's not an all-in kind of situation. Next, my preferences. I won't go through all these because it's a long list, but attractive preferences for me are like sweet, nurturing, fun, flirty, feminine, honest, affectionate, loyal, patient, not afraid to disagree with me, positive, optimistic attitude, open-minded, deeply spiritual, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so you got to have these kind of things down so you know, okay, like these traits are indicative that I'm moving in the right direction. 


If I'm meeting more and more people that are like this, then I know that I'm evolving as a person and I'm growing towards the person that I want to be. And then, yeah, you go into talking points. Here's a couple of my red flags because you asked about this earlier. So, and I have, I have gotten some hate on Instagram from saying some of these. 


So I'll say I mean, if anybody has any problems, just email Amy, don't talk to me about it. Number one red flag is if she has no friends or toxic friends because that means that she has poor communication skills and she's not going in a, you know, in a healthy social direction with her life. Number two, she has a poor relationship with her mother or father, which means that she has unhealed parental wounds. 


So it's like, I don't want to have kids with that person. Number three, still involved with an ex because this means that she's emotionally unavailable. Number four, she's under 26. This often, calm down internet, this often means that she's emotionally immature or has shiny object syndrome. I'm not here to say that everybody under 26 is like this, but generally safe to say that that could happen. Number five, there's smoked cigarettes. And yeah, it goes on and on and on from there. 


Like I said, I don't want to say all these and get derailed this conversation, take it in the wrong direction, get flamed for it later in the comments. The whole point of what I'm saying is you have to know what it is that you want and you have to be okay with not getting other people's permission to want that. You have to be okay with, like, I like guys who are short, or I like guys who are tall and having your sister say, no, short guys suck. Tall guys suck. Like what you need is an average-height guy. And you need to say, look,, Betsy, I respect your opinion and I love you, but I don't give a fuck what you think about the men that I date. That's what you need to do. 


A: Oh yeah. I mean, I think that the brilliance here is that you are getting people to actually say what they really desire. And that can really bring up some stuff that needs to get worked through. And I think that's probably like another step in your process because, you know, some guy out there start listing off this amazing, powerful, beautiful woman that they're calling into their lives, and there's gonna be a part of them that shows up and goes, do I fucking deserve her? 


Am I really valuable? Like powerful romance because I think, you know, from my own experience dating men and, you know, even in like my longer-term relationships, you know, the insecurity of a guy can really fuck stuff up. Right? Like you can show up there being so wonderful and nurturing and sweet and all the things that he ever wanted. 


And if he is not able to actually receive you, like it's painful because he's just, he's rejecting you because he feels like he's a piece of shit because maybe he doesn't make the kind of money that he thought he should be making at this point in his life or he's got unhealed stuff with his parents. Right? So I'm seeing that there's another layer that comes in after this initial process of asking, honestly, what are you calling in? What is your highest like thing that you're reaching for in a partner? And then from that space, what's gonna show up that's in the way of that? Absolutely. 


K: And you hit the nail on the head with everything that you just said and even pulled back the curtain on my marketing model because it is just like that. A big reason that I wanted to create date science, that's the name of the program, is to help women. Right? 


I have so, I have, personally, I have so many more female friends than male friends just because I think women are more interesting than men. Yes, said it. And they have horror stories. Just so many horror stories of, like, this guy was crazy, this guy was creepy, this guy was awkward, this guy seemed great at first, but they needed to have the confidence to keep it going, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 


And I was just like, holy shit, like in my heart of hearts, I know that these men are not evil, these men are not bad, they're not doing this to hurt these women, they're doing this out of ignorance, out of miseducation, out of like, they are so lost in their own distortion that they don't know how to present themselves in a way that is actually attractive to women. I was like, I could help everybody right now. And I can capitalize on it because what I do is put out this digital course, right? So that's like top of the funnel, like goes out to everybody. 


We get a lot of people buying that because it's cheap. And in the course, it teaches you how to do everything. It teaches you how to present yourself in a masculine way. It teaches you the fundamentals of female psychology as it pertains to dating. It teaches you body language, it teaches you approach, creating connection, building attraction. Even like sex 101, it's all in there. But like you just said, invariably, the guys who take this the most seriously and get the most out of it, come to a point of who am I, right? 


Now I have the instruction sheet, I have the fucking playbook for how to do this stuff, but who am I to actually do it? And then that's when they sign up for the one-to-one coaching. 


A: Right, and I guess my bet would be that's where somebody's life is profoundly changed, and they fucking meet their soulmate and or whatever it is that they're looking for when they get that kind of attention because the barriers that are in the way of our happiness are not external, they're internal. They're inside our bodies and they're physically felt and they're physically in the way when you wanna say something, and your timing is completely off, and you end up saying it like in this weird, creepy tone of voice. 


And now, all of a sudden, you're not this like wonderful, interesting guy anymore; you're like sounding kind of bizarre, and she's not so sure about you anymore, right? Like it's in our physical body and it's in our presentation. And the more that we can take away what's in the way of who we really are and our value innately as human beings, right? And the things inside of us that are here to grow and expand, right? When we can take away the barriers, the conditioning that's in the way of that, like that's where you get deep, profound connection with another person, romantic or not, you know? But that works to remove those barriers. I mean, it doesn't happen in a self-paced course, to be honest. 


K: Totally, 100% agree, no notes. 


A: Yeah, yeah, well, this is a great thing. That was one of the first things I loved about seeing you in this transition was, and maybe you aren't talking about this so much anymore, but you were like, I wanna help women meet men who actually know what they're doing and know how to be with women, because that's an area, as you said, that you have quite a bit of skill in. 


And you've had a lot of female friendships; you've had a lot of successful close relationships with people in your life. And so you're getting to share this wealth of knowledge from your own lived experience. So tell us a little bit; what are some of the success stories? Can you give us some examples of clients that you've worked with that started here and where did they end up? 


K: Yeah, absolutely. So, like I said, I started this program in September 16th was the genesis of the idea. So, none of my clients have had 10-year marriages or anything like that since the program is four months old. But I can say that men are changing the way that they view themselves. They're becoming more magnetic. 


They're realizing because I have the meditate, obviously, in none of my programs that I ever have or ever will have, will meditation not be a key tenant of the curriculum. But they're seeing things come up for themselves that they didn't realize were there. I had a client two days ago, we were on Zoom, and he was talking about, I think I need to stop meditating because it's making me more anxious. And I was like, no, my friend, it's not making you more anxious. 


It's making you aware of the anxiety that is already within you, right? So we have had a lot of hookups. I think there's one client who's in a serious relationship right now, so we've had a bunch of hookups tons of numbers collected. 


That's a metric that's more important for men than women. You're like, what's that gonna happen? But it's powerful for some of these guys. A couple of first dates, we had a client; that same guy actually had never like walked up to a woman, started a conversation, asked for her number, gotten her number, texted her, and set up a date, and gone on it. So, like a couple of first dates, which is really cool. 


A couple, like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like cord cutting, we didn't actually do cord-cutting ceremonies, but like disconnections from Xs. I had a man come into the program who initially was like, I just wanna get a bunch of ass so I can get over my X. And I was like, okay, we're gonna have to check your modus at some point, but sure, like, I can help you with that. And then at one point, he was like, actually, I think that I might wanna get back together with her, and I was like, okay, maybe like why? And he was talking about these reasons, and I was like, I don't know if those reasons are really in alignment with the stuff that you've been telling me you want to do with your life. 


And then eventually like us collaborating on what his boundaries would be if they were to get back together and then having her not be okay with those boundaries, right? It was stuff along the lines of like, I don't want you to live with me and me being the only income earner. I don't wanna have to like pay for everything for you. I don't wanna have to be your entire financial support. 


And she was like, no, I need you to do that. And he was like ready to go do that to be with her. And I was like, dude, I'm not saying that that's wrong. I'm not saying that men should or shouldn't pay for everything again, it's a case-by-case basis. But if you don't wanna do that and she does want you to do that, then you both need to be with different people. 


A: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's kind of like the, you know, for a woman like on the other end of it, like there are gonna be men out there who literally do want the woman to be a housewife, and they want her to just let them make the money and you take care of the kids. You know, kids would be another thing. That's like if you know in your heart of hearts that you do not want children, whether you're a man or a woman like that should be something that you kind of let people know upfront. If you're going deep into the relationship, unless it's like kind of a maybe, if it's a maybe or a gray zone for you, then like by all means, like I guess you can, you know, work that out. 


But if you know like really clearly that you must have children in this life, you should not be dating someone who does not want children. It's the same thing as what you just described. Like there are these certain things that if, you know, yeah, if we just go with, you know, how we feel and being attracted to somebody, we're gonna overlook these core things that are actually really fundamental to our happiness, right? 


Our current happiness and our future happiness. And I think that that's, it's really powerful that he was able to like, get your support in breaking that bond. Cause think about it, they just avoided like a whole, another, whatever, how long they were with each other, like three years of like just wasting their time and misery and unhappiness, you know, or God forbid they actually got married, and it just kept being this ongoing issue of like, you know, she wants to be financially provided for. 


And he just, that's not really what he wants to do, you know? And, like you said, no judgment. We're not like saying that there's a way that this should be done. It's just about what do you want, right? What's really gonna be an alignment for you? 


K: Exactly. And that's my biggest thing with all of this coaching. It's like, I don't tell people what they should or shouldn't do. I clarify what it is they want, strategize what needs to be done in order for them to get that and then hold them accountable to moving in alignment with the strategy that we've organized together. 


A: Yeah. And I mean, it's gonna be interesting too because, you know, people may pivot, you know? Like people do change their minds, and they go another direction. But what I think is really powerful that you're calling in. And I mean, this is what I work with people too and in the work that I do, which is more movement based and somatic healing, you know, nervous system work, working with people's pain in their bodies, but it's the same kind of premise here is that, you know, I'm never gonna know what is gonna be right for them. They know that somewhere in their body and what is right for them may shift and evolve and change. 


And so what's most important is that they ask those questions and that they have a practice of being in touch with themselves in an honest way, right? And they can get that feedback from you as their coach or, you know, for me and their bodies. That's like they get feedback sometimes from my hands if we're in person or sometimes from my questions about what they're feeling. 


So that you're building that ongoing internal connection with your intuition, which is gonna guide you into the direction that your life is meant to go. Everybody has their own internal guiding system in their Soma, in their body. And in so many ways, Kevin, you are doing like similar work to me in helping people get in touch with that, right? 


For in your case, the end goal of having more meaningful relationships that actually work out, that actually lead to what people really want from their relationships and less misery in the world for both men and women. 


K: Yep, absolutely. I agree with all that. And yeah, the capstone of date science, like obviously on the landing pages, it's find your perfect partner because that's the real tangible goal that we're going for here. But truthfully, the point of the program is not about like hooking up with a bunch of girls or even finding the one. 


The point of the program is to develop the comfort and confidence to be able to explore the possibilities with any woman. And in that way, you can say hi to people at the post office. You can go out on a casual date with some chick you met at the dog park. You can get down on one knee and propose to this person that you've been dating for several months or years or whatever, without ever feeling like I'm not good enough to talk to this person. I can't satisfy this person. 


I don't have any other options. So I might as well date this person. This is the only person who would marry me. So I'm going to marry this person. That's all the bullshit that we wanna get rid of here. And so, like I said at the very beginning, we might have not even hit record yet, but we wanna bring this back to basic human interaction. 


Bring back social skills. The kind of stuff that we should be taught from birth, essentially, we get put into, I talk so much shit about bureaucratic systems, but like we get taken to preschool, and it's like reading, writing, arithmetic, hit with a stick if you don't follow the rules and do this kind of stuff. Nobody teaches us how to breathe. Nobody teaches us posture. Nobody teaches us how to ask ourselves questions and reflect on the way that we're feeling. Nobody teaches us how to process our feelings. 


Nobody teaches us how to connect with other people or to make friends. They kick us out on the playground. They're like, if you like four square, go play with the kids who play four square. It's all like factory, I just factor realize. That's fun. And I'm here to say, fuck all the systems, fuck all the bureaucratic methods of organizing humans into boxes. Let's start being ourselves. Let's start deciding for ourselves who we want to be and deciding for ourselves what we want to do and deciding for ourselves the people with which we wanna surround ourselves and then fucking go in for it. 


A: Yes, yes, so much yes. So I was lucky enough to receive alternative education throughout my life. So I totally get what you mean because, for me, honestly, one of the most traumatic years of my life was when I went from Waldorf and homeschooling to a public school in third grade. I was like a little Pollyanna who was just like, oh, if you're my friend, like I'm nice to you and I care about you and I play with you and I'm kind to you. Well, the third graders at the public school, fucking did not subscribe to that philosophy. 


They were my friend one day and they hated me and bullied me the next day and it was really, really terrible. And I've created a alternative education program and I believe you have too. And an alternative education program that supplements things that we didn't learn that we should have learned about being human early on because of the way that you said, you have to use the word like factory, but it's like the industrialized kind of complex of our learning institutions fall short. 


And our parents often are so busy and overwhelmed and carrying so much stress that they don't have the time to fill in those gaps for us. And so we're thrown out into the world, we're thrown out into the dating scene with all kinds of dysfunctional patterns and gaps in our social abilities. 


So just, I think it's so great what you're doing. I'd love to see more of this kind of programming like out there for men, available to men for them to deprogram themselves and reprogram themselves so that they can actually have success with women, right? And then women can have like awesome dude partners who actually know what they want. 


K: Absolutely, cause we all deserve that. 


A: Yeah, wonderful. Well, it's been just amazing to have you share your story today, have you share your expertise and connect on this level. I always knew when I started following you and connecting with you that I would someday get to have a cool conversation with you. And here we go, we did it. 


K: We did it. And for you, Aimee, the reason why this podcast was better than a lot of other ones that I've been on, I even went on like a full hiatus. 


I was like, I'm not doing podcasts anymore. It's because you're so relaxed and you're so fun and you're so easy to talk to you. And you are here with the genuine intention of helping people. And you genuinely believe that the guests that you have on this show have valuable information to offer others. I've been on a lot of podcasts where people were like, give me some of your clout. You have 10 times more Instagram followers than me. So like come on my podcast so that more people will follow me or people who are like, really I'm just here to sell my own shit. 


And so come on my podcast so we can do an extra episode of like, da, da, da, da, da. All these kinds of intentions and, you know, you're more experienced with it too. So you are more relaxed. And I've been on podcasts with people who are like, really nervous. They don't like facilitate it that well. In terms of dating, it's like, it's up to the man to lead the interaction from that place of like emotional state transfer. But for you, because you're the host right now, like you're in this state of leadership, right? 


So it's like, if I come on here, if you're fiddy at hosting a podcast, I'm not just gonna like jujitsu it and be like, all right, it's the Kevin Chinn show now, let's party. I'm here following your lead. And so you, yeah, it created a really safe space, really easy, fun, flowy way to go about it. And that's why I enjoyed myself. 


A: Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I've been realizing over the last year that I have grown so much as a host and so much of my style, I think, not to toot my own horn or anything here, but it's a somatic in the sense that whoever shows up on my show, I really am genuinely interested in learning about them, supporting them and meeting them where they're at in their development, and then like encouraging them to really like shine, reflecting back brilliant things that they say, and just an affirmative approach to podcasting. 


And I don't listen to a lot of podcasts, but I have like, in the background, my husband like listens to his like boy podcasts or whatever sometimes, and like, they're like kind of argumentative or like this kind of editative stuff. And it's kind of, it's not my style at all. So I definitely find myself gravitating more towards an affirmative style of podcasting. And I really appreciate your feedback. I've gotten really great feedback over the last half a year that I've been asking, that I've been asking for feedback and love it. Thank you so much. 


K: Yeah, it shows. You're doing great. 


A: Maybe here at the end, if you wanna just share with our audience where they can find you, where they can follow you, and a little bit about anything, any offers that are coming up or any programs you have going on. 


K: Yeah, absolutely. The kind of central hub front end is the Instagram. So it's just date.science on Instagram. And from there, you can find the website, you can find the landing pages, you can find the course, probably the best. I mean, I have a lot of free stuff. So if you follow me on Instagram, like you'll see all the free stuff too. 


And my goal inspired by Alex Hermosi was to create free content that was better than the stuff that people are urging for. And honestly, I would give away the course for free if I thought that people would take it seriously. But the truth is that people aren't gonna watch, it's like a four hour course, right? 


It's very deep, it's very comprehensive. People aren't gonna watch it if it's free, right? You have to put a price tag on it so that people value it. That's why I sell the course. Same thing with the coaching. If I had all the time in the world, I would be happy to coach people for free, but because my time is limited, I charge for it. So to answer your question, date.science on Instagram. 


A:  Awesome. Well, definitely to any fellows out there who are listening, who are feeling a little bit challenged by the current dating world and all the dating apps, et cetera, follow Kevin, get some information from his freebies and maybe even book a coaching session with him to really transform that reality, right? Thank you so much for being here with us today and I really look forward to another awesome conversation in the future. 


K: Absolutely, thanks for having me, Aimee. 


A: You've been listening to the Free Your Soma podcast. To find out more information about today's guest, check the show notes. And to find out more information about me, Aimee Takaya and the Radiance Program, visit www.freeyoursoma .com. 


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