Did you know that therapy can go beyond just talking? In today’s episode, Stacey Sciacchitano, a licensed marriage and family therapist, shares her unique approach to healing anxiety, mood disorders, and supporting children with autism.
Stacey’s work emphasizes the vital connection between mind and body, highlighting how physical experiences and nature play key roles in personal growth and healing.
Join us as we explore the importance of a holistic approach in therapy, and how Stacey is transforming the way we look at healing.
In this podcast episode, Stacey walks us through:
- Her journey from outdoor recreation to working with children on the autism spectrum.
- The crucial role of early intervention and physical therapies for autism
- How body-based approaches can benefit people of all ages, including those with anxiety and mood disorders
- The disconnect between mind and body in traditional therapy approaches
- The potential of combining talk therapy with somatic practices for accelerated healing
- The importance of nature and movement for overall well-being
- Practical tips for therapists to incorporate body awareness into their practice
- Her upcoming anxiety relief program and her vision for more holistic mental health care
And so much more!
Worry and anxiety cause difficulty through thoughts, feelings, and bodily sensations. Awareness is the first step to healing. Stacey Sciacchitano, M.Ed., LMFT, is a licensed psychotherapist and anxiety coach in the state of California.
Stacey works in her own private practice because she is passionate about helping adults, especially women, struggling with anxiety, along with issues such as life transitions, a lost sense of self, and a longing to move towards their life desires.
Stacey grew up in more than one place in the states, so she has learned to be flexible, an excellent listener, and has uncovered her empathic self to really be understanding of others.
Stacey loves to guide and empower individuals to overcome the hold anxiety may have on them and helps them to move toward their values and who they want to be instead of feeling trapped by anxiety. Stacey has a varied experience of working with people of all ages and walks of life. She used to work in the field of autism with children, adults, and their families.
Her toolbox is made up of hours of dedication to learning and training so she can best help others in this world; To clear childhood and past struggles and take hold of their innate ability to work with those parts of themselves that they may reject away so they can thrive. This is special work that Stacey does with clients so they tap into their own strengths and shift their perspective.
Stacey values expansiveness, integrity, and authenticity in her business. Her training includes, but is not limited to, CBT, ACT, IFS, Solution-Focused, Memory Reconsolidation, Guided Imagery, Inner Child, Mindfulness, Gottman Couples Therapy, Behaviorism and holds a certificate for the treatment of anxiety. She has created a coaching program that is a step-by-step process to empower people who identify as struggling with anxiety. Stacey encourages self-care to cope with her own anxiety, as it runs in her family, and does in and around the greater San Diego area while hiking, doing yoga, walking, camping, adventuring in Baja, traveling, appreciating music, and being with friends and family.
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Learn more about Aimee Takaya, Hanna Somatic Education, and The Radiance Program at www.freeyoursoma.com
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A: Every day there is a forgetting and every moment there is the possibility of remembering. Remembering who you truly are, awakening to your body, to the inner world, to the experience of being alive. Here is where you find the beauty, the joy, and here is where you free your Soma. I'm your host, Aimee Takaya. I'm here to help you move from pain to power, from tension to expansion, and ultimately from fear to love.
A: Hello and welcome to Free Your Soma, Stories of Somatic Awakening and How to Live from the Inside Out. I'm Aimee Takaya and today I'm speaking with Stacey Sciacchitano, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist who works with adults who are struggling with anxiety and mood disorders.
However, previously she worked with children on the autism spectrum disorder and their families doing early intervention work, working in schools to help them adapt and learn certain behavioral skills, behavior changes.
We're going to talk about all of that today and about how Stacey has been realizing that there is this disconnect in the way that a lot of therapists are trained and that really one of the deepest ways that we can make the healing process not only streamlined and more efficient but also more long-lasting is by working with our body because we're having a body experience as we're alive as human beings. There's no way to get around that.
So thank you so much for being here with me, Stacey.
S: Thank you for having me, Aimee. It's great to be here and it's great to see you.
A: Yeah, same. Same. We got to meet each other at Joshua Tree Music Festival actually.
S: Yeah.
A: Yeah. The moment you started telling me about what you have been experiencing and what you've been up to, I was like, oh, this is going to click, like what we're the stuff that I'm doing and the stuff that you're doing is really going to click.
S: Yes, agreed. Agreed. I was like, it was a little bit of a divine intervention, I think, in a way.
A: Absolutely. I love that feeling. Yeah, it's like a little pat on the back. You know, we're in the right, we're coming in the right direction.
S: Absolutely. Absolutely.
A: Yeah. So maybe you can tell our audience just a little bit about your background, a little bit about yourself and how you got into this line of work.
S: Okay. Sometimes it's a challenge like, how far back do I go? I went to undergrad not knowing what the heck I was doing, but I always knew, like deep down in my heart, I wanted to help people. So I actually got my undergrad in recreation leisure studies thinking, oh, you're helping people, you know, leisure or recreate, right?
Because that's a whole other part of our life that is necessary in the world, kind of like some play. But also it was working with people with disabilities as well. And after that, I ended up, I really fell in love with camping and hiking while I was there. So funny is with that major, I went to SUNY, Portland, and they had an outdoor recreation major.
And so I kind of got a whole bunch of that. And growing up, I had never been camping, hiking. We, mostly my dad was into boats. So we're on the water. So fast forward, we, part of our degree was to go on a week long camping and canoeing, backpacking trip. And I just like, I just like fell in love.
And I was like, okay, this is it. I'm going to grad school realize, I don't think I want to live out in the woods 24. So I ended up getting my degree in counseling psychology, then I moved out to San Diego, ended up getting my degree in school psychology thinking, oh, I can really help kids if I work in the schools. And then you could get the school breaks.
At the time, that's what I was thinking. And I ended up like, kind of moving around a bit doing different jobs. And I, when I was going to school out in San Diego out here, I ended up working in what's called the Learning Center at National University. And this woman came in. And she came in at a couple of times, she goes, you know what? She goes, I think you might like this field of work that I'm doing, because her and I would get to talking.
And I was like, yeah, I could use some extra money. So it's this program, they work with kids with autism, but it was an after school program, and it was a socialization program. And what they do is interesting is they have you observe first before you even apply. Well, you apply for the job. And if you're interested, then they have you observe. Because it's not, I think it's not a job where you can fake it.
Right? You either want to help people, people that weren't really into it just, they just never lasted. So start this job, really, really like, I just really liked working with the kids and then working with the families. And that's how I ended up getting into this whole field of what's called ABA, applied behavior analysis of going into the homes, going to schools, working with kids on the spectrum, working with their families.
And then down the line also work with like teenagers, young adults, even some couples, which is interesting. And then through that, I ended up getting my hours and getting licensed as a marriage and family therapist here in California. At the time, that was the only designee for people with their masters. So you could have your licensed MFT, or you would go on to get your psychology, your doctorate. Now they have what's called a licensed professional counselor.
So that could be another designee. Yeah, so I ended up becoming a super, what's called becoming a supervisor in this ABA field, working with kids with autism, where we create programs to help the kids, you know, the idea is to help them decrease the gaps. Really, it's between like their ability, right, and their potential. But of course, there was assessments and everything.
So you kind of looked at where did they need the most help. And especially working with the really young kids, we really started at a lot of times at ground zero, because sometimes we were working at three, three and a half year olds, just to make a request for something, you know, just to say hello, learn to wash their hands, things like that. And then came with that came just supporting the family and working with the parents, usually the mom, but Wow, yeah.
A: So I think it's really interesting that, you know, you started in a totally different direction with something that was actually very physical and nature based movement in your body, moving around, going on these hikes. And it was something that kind of was this opening, this awakening for you to a whole nother part of yourself, probably that you didn't even know before, because you said as a child, you didn't go on those kind of expeditions, right.
So that was like this opening. And what I find curious about it is that there's a lot of studies now that show that spending time in nature, you know, and moving our body in these rhythmic ways is so essential to our well being.
And you know, it's interesting that they even have a degree that they call like recreation leisure, that's about simply walking in the woods, you know, or going on a hike, like it's become this thing that's that we're no longer just naturally doing in the world, it becomes this thing that's now like a special other thing you have to plan for and take time off and have enough money to be able to take time off to do it. Right.
But it's a supernatural thing to human beings or living creatures in general, right, to just simply be in nature and move your body. Did you know that your muscles are holding on to thoughts, memories, and feelings? If you have a tight neck or back, you're not just getting old, you're experiencing a buildup of tension from the life you've lived. Most people don't know this, but there is a part of your brain that can reverse and prevent chronic tension.
When you relax your muscles, you not only move better and regulate your nervous system, but you also free yourself from the grip the past has over your body. So you can live with freedom, confidence, and enjoy your life now. How does that sound? Join me, Aimee Takaya, and discover what my clients are raving about at YouCanFreeYourSoma.com.
S: Yeah, and even as you're saying this, it makes me think about what's the comparison of, you know, where we had more nature around us to now we have more concrete around us if you live in the city, right? And also too is, as you were saying that, it reminded me how I actually grew up Catholic in the with a religion. I always questioned it even at a very young age. I questioned it because I was like, what?
People don't come back alive. Anyway, that was another piece of it. After I had done that outdoor trip, I started hiking more and I was like, it's also to me was like this connection. I didn't know it at the time, but it's like a connection to this.
I want to say just spirituality, like the universe, you know, that it's bigger than us. And also too, as I've aged and just mature, it's like, it's really shows how we all are really connected, right? It's the human's thinking brain that kind of, I think, with all the other stuff, like can separate us from that.
A: Yes, and getting in touch with, you know, being in nature and moving your body, you know, going on a hike and all of those things are dramatically different than sitting eight hours at a desk, like looking at a screen or even sitting across, you know, from a table talking to somebody. That's not like a very, you know, physical experience that can end up becoming a very mental experience in some ways, right?
Where we might start living in our heads or thinking that, you know, the world is happening in our heads when it's actually, there's a whole other section of our humanity that we're not even noticing as we're sitting there, right?
And so it's just interesting to me that you started in that field, and then you moved into working with children on the autism spectrum disorder, because a lot of children on the autism spectrum disorder, their issues are not just, you know, their ability to pay attention or their ability to socially interact, they're physical challenges as well.
There's motor issues that they have where they're not able to control the way their body moves, or they're not able to organize, you know, certain activities that most people just take for granted. Can you say a little bit about what you noticed with children on the spectrum?
S: Yes, most definitely. The exact terminology is escaping me right now. But one thing with the kids sometimes, and it wasn't always either or, but sometimes the kids would be, I can't remember what the word is, but it's they're like under stimulated. And they're still, yeah, but they'll be under stimulated and they're even their muscle tone is really like soft. And those are a lot of times the kids that would have, you know, just trouble with even just walking or running or throwing.
And then you have the kids that are the opposite are really tense and really tight. Yes, exactly. Exactly.
So there was that, right? And then there was like, they're where they're at in space, a lot of them like proprioception don't know where they're at in space. And then they have that vestibular piece, right, able to like purposely move things.
So right, it's for them, it's their brain is arranged differently. And I know we know a lot more now than we when we did even 10 years ago. But even just noticing from like, because what we did was I supervised the people that worked firsthand with the kids.
And I also did that myself. What I would notice is when they're really young, they'd be getting all kind of services, including occupational therapy, and OT would be able to address some of this motor movement, even some of the kids got some PT, but the OTs are kind of the ones who were looking at the motor movements.
But by the time they're in school, it was like, they weren't, it's like, Oh, they aged out of that, or they there's not, there's not a service available to pay for it. And the schools where it's like, it has to be school related for them to address it. But what I noticed is a lot of times, it was like, how about getting the kid ready, just ready to learn, right?
If we're doing so, the ABA is a lot about what they call trials. So it's repetition, right, they're going to learn the name of a dog because they're repeating it, repetition, sleep, repeating it. But right, if you have a kid that's overstimulated or even under stimulated, it's harder to get their attention.
And it's like, I know they know what this is, right, but their attention might be here and there or their body movements. So it was like a lot of times, it was like, well, how can we get them ready to learn? And I'd always, always was like, gosh, I wish we could have more of a plan to address the motor part of the bot, what's happening in the body?
A: Right. As you're saying that, I'm thinking about these different things that I learned when I was a child. I was lucky enough to attend Waldorf school for a period of time. And they have all these motor things that they do with kids, that there's other forms of this now, there's something called brain gym that they also do in some schools.
Yeah, they did that stuff with us in Waldorf, but they did it with like songs and games. So they have you moving your arms and singing a song and doing this rhythmic kind of learning, where then you're going to remember, just like if anybody, we all remember our ABCs because of the little song. If we just tried to say A, B, C, D, and we just said it really straight, it would be much, much harder to memorize that.
But because there's a little tune that goes with it, or if you've ever, these things like mnemonics where you can try to memorize something by associating it with something else, or if you're physically, if you physically do something, like I've met people, there was one person who said that they would like, sometimes, like if they were trying to remember people's names, they would like clap a little bit, or they would like make a little, you know, clap when they would say the person's name, so that they would remember it better.
Because you're actually then you're not just trying to like take it in, in terms of memorization or memory, you're actually embedding it in like a lived experience, right? So I imagine that those kind of things would have been really beneficial if they were doing a lot of that kind of stuff, maybe they were, but even, even more, that's like, that's going to get your attention more than just someone asking you to repeat something over and over, you're not getting your attention, start singing a song and the kids probably are like, Exactly.
S: Oh no, yeah, the music therapy, and it's just the sorry, the sad thing is, it's like, it's the funding, that's the sad part. Because like just how you said you reminded me, we used to we would use song, we would even use something called social stories, where you like make the story really short, or pertain to whatever it is the child is like dealing with.
And it was again about repetition, but like you said, like, I would write the story, but if let's say they loved trains, well, then I would use trains as the reference and the main part of the story and maybe give a train with their name to it, right? So they have this connection to it. And the music, I wish music could be more part of like all kids learning more so than it is.
A: Right there, the funding and the access to this, because, you know, I didn't get to stay in Waldorf school because of finances, you know, it's private school usually, and it can be quite expensive and, you know, versus like public school is free, you know, whatever insurance is going to cover for, you know, occupational therapy, and, you know, they're going to only cover what they think is needed.
So maybe once the kids in school, it's like mission accomplished, they don't need it anymore. But the truth is that our brains are going to keep developing, and we can help that child become more and more functional instead of kind of hitting the ceiling.
S: Yes. What you're talking about reminds you of your, you're more meeting the whole child, right? And I would also imagine, right, if I'm feeling right, if talking about kids on the spectrum and they might have trouble with proprioception or vestibular, right, or hypertonic, or you said hypotonic, if they're not feeling grounded in their body, well, then isn't it so much harder to do things that are challenging, like socialize, go into public places that might be a little bit noisy? Because some of the kids also have like sensory sensitivities, right?
A: And so, also very physical, you know, their body divides the sensations on their skin from certain fabrics or the way that, you know, things are feeling when they come in contact with them, the way that food feels in their mouth, certain textures, you know, and stuff like that can be very upsetting and alarming to them because of the way they're perceiving it.
S: Yes, right. And you're not going to tell them, well, take, well, you can like, okay, let's take three deep breaths. But I think they need a little bit more than just taking three deep breaths. Let's just remind me, they actually used to have this brushing protocol, what they would do with a lot of the younger, the young ones, which was supposed to be calming, the OTs would teach that.
A: Yeah, I have some colleagues that have, you know, taught me different techniques, like in some parents that have worked with OTs have known these things, like when I've met another mom and she has a kid who's on the spectrum, and we, you know, talk a little bit about things that she finds, you know, that help him, like some children like squeezing, you know, so they like to use their arms, but other kids don't like the pressure, they don't like squeezing. So you have to do like a light sweeping without the squeezing, you know, but then another kid is not going to like the sweeping.
So it's so individual because everybody's nervous system is wired individually. And so I think there's a lot of, you know, exploration that has to be, you know, given space in this kind of, you know, work. Did you feel like you were able to like, when you experienced working with a child for a period of time, like what did that length of time look like? Like how frequently were you seeing them and for how long until it was kind of like game over?
S: Good question. It depended on the age of the kid. And after you, after there was assessments, right, how many goals were there. But the, like the little ones, you, we would work with them five days a week.
And we would work with them at a minimum for a year and a half. Because right if you're three years old, that brings you to four and a half. When the kids started getting school age is when insurance and regional center wants you to taper off because they're like, well, the school can start doing it, right? But the school doesn't hit all parts of your life. Kids on average, right?
A little bit older kid would be maybe three days, a week, two hours at a time. And then in the schools, a lot of times, we ended up working with the kids that the school just couldn't work with. And unfortunately, it was that they usually had like a really aberrant behavioral problem that resulted in usually some kind of like violence.
A lot of times are just aberrant behaviors where they're so disruptive. And the school just is like, I don't know what to do. And usually the parents, they have parents that are really good advocates or get a good advocate. So that would be, you know, their whole school day. But we are also be shadowing them in their classes and whatnot. But really helping them to learn and also, you know, behavioral intervention with those behaviors. Because a lot of times, right, there's a function to a behavior.
Yeah, it has purpose. Exactly. And a lot of these kids that escape, not a lot, but the basic learning theory is escape, avoid, or gain. And then there's what's called self-simulatory behaviors.
There's no outside or really trigger or anything. It's just like, you know, some of those repetitive behaviors. And I think a lot of times it's calming. It's something they could depend on. It's something that their mind and body came up with, like, this feels good.
A: And also, you know, any of those behaviors, you know, that you could just kind of name whether they're trying to gain something or avoid something, you know, or they're stimulating themselves. It's in response to something they're experiencing.
It's in response to something that is being experienced through their body. And they may not be able to describe that or tell you what that is. But if you spend enough time with a kid, you can start to figure out what it is that they're reacting or responding to in their environment, right? Or in their internal environment of how their body feels at that moment. Yeah. Right.
S: And that's a lot of, that's what we did. We analyzed behavior, function of the behavior, what's the antecedent, meaning what happened right before. So it's like, you're looking kind of at the trigger. It's like, well, is there anything we could be doing beforehand so they don't have to get to that point? And you're also teaching them skills on the other side of it.
Because maybe it's having a tantrum because they don't want to go outside because the PE saying you have to kick a ball and they can't kick a ball, right? And so it's just the whole, whole thing of like, this is too hard or, or, you know, kids cannot be so nice and make fun of other kids and, right? So they're like, I'm going to avoid this.
So teach them what's on the other hand of that, of teaching them some coping skills. And then if they do want to kick a ball, learn to kick a ball because they want to play with their classmates, it's like, well, let's break it down and teach you to kick the ball. Yeah.
A: You know, it actually sounds like, you know, till they're, till they're in school, there's a lot of attention that kids can receive, you know, this kind of therapy sounds like really great in a lot of ways. And so much of it, you know, being kind of goal oriented, I feel like it would be interesting to see what would happen if it was more, more like, I guess, like more motor oriented, right? And I'm curious here, like some of these interventions, you know, the physical kinds of interventions, what might it look like? And maybe you have an answer to this when a person who has maybe some, they're somewhere on the spectrum, right?
Diagnosed or undiagnosed, perhaps, and they grow up and they have certain kinds of challenges, maybe they struggle with anxiety or different kinds of mood just reverse and what kind of help they're going to be getting when they start to see a therapist versus what kind of help they might have gotten when they were two or three years old. Right.
To address the same kinds of difficulties in function, right? Being able to go out and do things because they're too anxious or, you know, or not being able to perform certain tasks because they have, you know, these reactions to life that get in the way. You say a little bit about like that journey of a person, like, you know, as they're an adult now, what would have been beneficial for them to have that same kind of like close attention?
S: Yeah, I think that's the downfall is they get all this intense early intervention. And then when they get to school, it's more about like scholastics, unless they're deemed quote unquote severe, and then they put into these classrooms that are more like functional daily living skills, kind of basic classes. And then what's interesting is, so in California, we have what's called the regional centers, and it manages all that state and federal monies for people with a long life disability, but developmental disability.
So they serve zero to 99. If you are able to get qualified for the regional, and usually it's before your 18, sometimes it'll be after because you got diagnosed earlier, they actually do have some decent services for what they call that transitional aged youth.
But really, it really still just addresses daily living type of functional skills, meaning can you go out to the store and maybe buy something, it depends on the kid's like level of functioning, how affected they are by the autism.
And then also do they have so have a, you know, an intellectual disability delay. But the after school interventions kind of fade away a bit. Unless I like I said, unless you have a parent that's a really good advocate. And unfortunately, in our system, which happens all over with other things is you get services when you're not doing well.
A: Yeah, right. Right. And while you were speaking, I was thinking about this term high functioning, which is they use for someone on the spectrum who can go out to the store and buy something who can get in a car and drive, who can't sit there and have like a relatively normal conversation with you.
But what they still experience ongoingly in their body and in their living experience and their ability to actually maintain, you know, relationships and experience happiness or experience success is perhaps still limited, but they're not getting that same kind of attention as someone else who is more in a severe state and who is less functional.
So it's kind of one of these things where like, like you just said, if you have more difficulties, you get more help versus people who are still struggling and are not are just kind of like, well, you're fine, you're good enough, you can function, you can provide like a certain level of, you know, contribution to society or like take care of yourself. So see ya.
S: Right. Exactly. And even though they might still be suffering, like you said, and as, and as adults, it does kind of manifest as like anxiety or bipolar disorder or depression or OCD or ADHD, which ADHD I think can be a whole, it is a whole separate diagnosis. But yes, agree wholeheartedly with you. I mean, right, and that can go, that can look into our bigger society how that has that thing, same thing happens, right?
A: Yeah, and it's kind of unfortunate because I feel like the kind of education that you were providing to these really young children is, I mean, ideally that would that kind of education should be available to anybody who needs it, you know, to regardless of their actual like, you know, functional ability, you know what I'm saying, like, yes, absolutely.
I'm one of those people, I mean, I started therapy when I was young, and I thought, you know, therapy did such a lot for me, you know, traditional talk for therapy, which is where most people start, right, before they go to other realms and somatic therapies and things like this.
But it's like, we think that that's just for people who have problems versus maybe like you could, you know, be really out there and say that it's a right for another human being to have a safe and supportive place to express themselves fully and be understood and guided by a professional who, you know, does that who knows what they're doing.
Like that should be something that we see as a culture is being beneficial to everybody, not just somebody who is on the verge of, you know, like losing their job or committing suicide or going through a divorce, you know, like, why do we have to wait till there's a disaster of some kind before we start doing something like get a kind loving person to talk with. Right.
S: No, I wholeheartedly agree. I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, I think partially good thing is probably in this even just this decade or part of the last one, it's like therapy getting help as more accepted. I think people in there's like 20s and 30s, they're more like, yes, everyone, I mean, well, of course, the people I work with, they're like, everyone should get therapy.
I'm like, I agree. But it's exactly what you're saying. And I think it's partly too is undoing the patterns of the past that no longer serve us any longer.
Right. It's that's comparing that to like a person on the spectrum who could use therapy. I think that's what I think at the services to the adults and the young adults, besides if they're in the regional center is, yeah, they can get talk therapy. But even just me being a therapist and having so much experience with autism, I think only a certain subset can benefit from just talk therapy.
I think it needs to be more kind of like, including something of like what you're doing, I think would be amazing. Like if I was a parent and had a kid on the spectrum and a young adult or even an adult child on a spectrum, I would absolutely encourage them like, let's give let's give this a try.
Because I do think it's that, you know, how your body sends you messages, but they just lack kind of understanding of it, right? And even you don't need to understand like with what you do, you don't have to cognitively understand it. You have someone like you guiding them through it, right? And you're also creating that safe container to guide them through this, these exercises, which I could see benefiting somebody to just be a little bit more in their body.
A: Absolutely. I mean, what I do is immediately building proprioceptive neural pathways that didn't exist before, and actually reminding their body of functional movement patterns that they were born to experience like functional patterns of walking, you know, functional patterns of standing.
And what's really interesting about, you know, hanosematics and the way that it helps people with autism spectrum disorder and ADHD is that what's going on in a lot of kids, you know, let's take ADHD, for example, they're having difficulties sitting still because there are motor patterns that are running in their autonomic nervous system that make them want to stand and move around.
It's physically uncomfortable for them to sit in a chair for periods of time because their brain is firing their muscles to move, right? And that's why you see them twitching or tapping or doing any of these things we might call stimming is what their brain is doing.
It's running these motor patterns. And when we start doing motor patterns in a conscious way, and then slowly letting it go like in hanosematics, we teach the brain to actually inhibit those motor patterns that are getting in the way of them simply being able to sit still.
So it's a process of not only reminding their brain of the function that they were born to experience, right? And every human's body has the capacity to experience, right? Regardless of whether, you know, even people who are born, you know, with cerebral palsy or no arms, like there's function they can get to experience, there's ways they can learn to move whatever body they have in a more functional way. Like that's available to our human vessel.
But in order to get that to happen, sometimes there needs to be a quieting and a reduction of the motor patterns first so that they can actually experience that change in that function. Does that make sense?
S: It makes sense. Well, I was just thinking about likening that to because, right, I work my nature's anxiety. I've dealt with it my whole life unknowingly, especially in like overanalyzing overthinking. My dad's dealt with it.
His sister's dealt with it, right? It's kind of a generational predisposition to it. But it just got me thinking about how that mind-body connection, right?
And anxiety, like a generalized anxiety is the worrying and the what-ifs, but it's really to keep us safe, right? But that fight, flight, or freeze, right? It doesn't happen when the trigger happens. It's anticipation of the trigger, right? And so, and this idea that things fires together, wires together, right? And we have these big traumas and these little traumas.
And this body, right, the neurons, something happens, it fires these neurons and now they're wired together. But then it's creating in our whole system, now the body and the mind have a defensiveness to whatever this trigger is, if it's a real or perceived threat, right? Nowadays, not nowadays. Well, nowadays, more, I think higher percentage is perceived threat, but I know there is, it's based off of what's happened to us in the past. Right.
A: And we have better ways of measuring now too, which is part of it, better ways of measuring. And we're doing more of that kind of research to find out what people have been experiencing. So, and then there are other factors that play into this, like the sedentary lifestyles that people have in the going back to the first part of our conversation, that people aren't connected to moving around in nature on the earth, but are spending time away from the earth and not able to connect with that part of ourselves really that exists when we go out in nature.
There's a quieting of your nervous system for many people when you go out into nature and a calming that occurs, you know, and places that are very like, you know, stimulating and bright and have lots, you know, lots of lights and, you know, say like a busy, busy city or something like that is going to be very stimulating to your nervous system in a different way, you know. And so, more and more people are experiencing that as they're normal and they're not experiencing this quiet, you know, reduced stimulation, right?
S: Oh, yeah. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with that. Yeah, that's true.
A: And many more. It's not their natural experience. They're used to being stimulated. And so when they go into nature and there's nothing, you know, or if someone's ever had the experience of like losing their phone for a few days and they don't have a phone, you can just see how conditioned you are to like be interacting all the time with this little like glowing rectangle that, you know, feeds you information, you know, and feeds you stimulation, right?
S: Yes, I often notice and I get it that like when people are waiting for things, it's right away. The phone comes out and I do it sometimes a lot of times I just purposely don't take it out because I'm like, I'm not going to be like everybody else and I don't need to be in the phone.
And I know it's maybe a way to like be comfortable with just standing there or not, right? But back in the day, people maybe maybe would talk to each other instead or you can notice what's maybe happening or what if you're waiting outside? You can see the sky and the trees, but everyone like you said, everyone's like in their phone and it I think it does create a disconnect. Yeah.
A: And then for people who have anxiety, you notice that they are much more either like they're more prone to having an unhealthy relationship with their phone.
S: Oh, yeah. And they I hear a lot of them talk about being on social media and like, I know I shouldn't compare myself, but you know, using that as like a comparison type of thing.
And it, you know, and I do talk about dealing, helping people who who are over thinkers, like they like to analyze and that's also because that's where I came from this over analyzing overthinking things and come to find out it's another safety behavior. I mean, I think it's beneficial in some ways, but it's also a safety behavior.
But I would use it. I used to think because I'm not job with the kids with autism, we used to drive around a lot. I did deal I used to deal with a lot of things at the same time. And sometimes I'd be like, I feel so exhausted, but bodily I didn't really do much. It was all like, but it almost felt like your head is separated from your body because you're so much in your head.
Right. And and the antidote to that is what is to get a little bit more into your body. And that's that's one thing when I met you, I was saying was, I literally had just like come to the conclusion, I'm just at where I'm at my journey of being a therapist. And I am very interested in the whole incorporating the body, like in psychology, there's somatic, you know, Peter Levine somatic experiencing.
And then the other lady's name. But also to realizing, maybe that's just where I'm at now, more helping people through talking. But I think also through their spirit is really my underlying like secret thing I feel to be in touch with themselves to be in flow to be where they're like, where are you when you feel good or connected or calm? Who are you with when you're connected and calm? Yeah, maybe calm being it can have stimulation, but you just it's like a sense of like peace or a sense of awe, right? Where are you when that's happening?
A: Do you ever invite your clients, you know, when they're working through something to just notice their body or to notice how they feel in their body? Like one, you know, simple thing I think a lot of therapists can use is that they just ask them to feel, you know, their feet on the floor, you know, ask them to feel hips in the chair. And there's a feeling coming up that's really strong, you know, where in their body are they feeling that?
Yes, you know, and then when they're feeling good, when they're feeling some relief, where do they feel that relief? Yeah, that's a simple way to just invite them to sense, you know, and build a connection that's beyond just their mental, yeah, their mental capacity.
S: Yes, that is actually one of the main ways you get people. So, you know, like you, right, you, you're targeting where people are holding where the tension is, right? Yeah, yes. So I'm often targeting where the tension is like in their memory. And but I will use like, okay, where do you feel that in your body? What does that feel like? And sometimes you have them like, does it have a shape?
Does it have a color? But then it's, it's also like, well, when can you remember having this feeling before? When is one of the earliest times you can remember having this feeling? And a lot of times that's when, oh my gosh, I remember that time in fifth grade, and those girls were making fun of me and blah, blah, blah, blah. And on top of that, though, what I've been learning more of is what you were saying about also, when is a time where you felt grounded in your body? Yeah, right? Or peace?
Like, when is a time where you felt that and also connect them to that? Because you want to, because I don't want to just even though I'm licensed with the state of California, I work with insurance companies, so it's a lot symptom based, right?
But I'm looking to expand my practice outside of that. I want to help people like uncover, because I think it's already there, their own knowledge, their own strengths, their own joy, their own peace, their own compassion, their own connection, right? And help them to be going where they want to be going and be the kind of person that they want to be.
A: Right? That's a way forward versus kind of, you know, if we stay stuck in what's wrong or what's not working, right? We're staying kind of stuck in the past or we're kind of replaying what's not working and we're focusing on that versus you can do some of that.
And then the next step is like inviting people to connect with what is working, what part of them is fun. What part of them does feel well. You know, and I do that a lot when I'm working with people in pain because they're focusing on the pain, the pain is still there. Okay, well, can we also feel that while there is this pain in your back or your shoulder, your left leg is actually feeling pretty good.
Left leg actually feels pretty relaxed. Can we be with both of those things? They both exist in you right now, you know, and this pain, we can keep working with it to help it let go. And part of that is reminding your body that it can feel good and that it can feel relaxed, right? And that there is a path forward and we don't just have to keep reliving these same patterns from the past. Right.
S: And that's right. Our brain kind of is wired to look at the negative. We have a negative bias just because we're looking at what's going to keep us safe. So it's like people like you and me that could write to help people remind them of that. Remember this.
A: To help them find the function, find where it's working, you know, where what's working in them, you know, because we can, like you said, just that protect self protection mode when you're living there, when that's your reality.
And that's a big part of like anxiety and all kinds of experiences. You're just living there, you know, and I would even go to say that like someone who is on the spectrum is having a bodily experience of being in kind of stuck in their patterns, stuck in the way body does things. And what's so beautiful about somatic work in general is that it, you know, invites you to find that way forward.
So, you know, consider yourself at this point to be a somatic therapist, the fact that you're even thinking about this stuff, you know, that you have this background with connecting to nature and connecting to like, you know, the way that our bodies are designed to function. I would say that that is leading into a more somatic approach that you're that you're gradually cultivating and probably going to keep cultivating.
S: Yes, I would like to that other one. I couldn't remember what I was is called sensory motor psychotherapy. I just bought her book. It's like this.
A: No, I mean, I love it. Yeah, I out there. Yes.
S: And I totally grew the and I was just what you were saying to also just reminding me of that's also the patterns with the ways of thinking and that's what rumination and overthinking over analyzing we're just we have these grooves that we're so used to having and so maybe our safety behavior. That's why I like to help people like let's find a new path. Let's find a different path forward.
Let's change the channel on that. But I could see how right I wonder because I kind of feel like what you do and what I do is such a amazing compliment. And I it's like I could just see it work in conjunction to so incredibly well.
A: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because I'm not a I'm not a therapist in terms of the talk therapy thing, you know, but the work that I do helps relieve a lot of pressure that people experience. It gets a rid of kind of the things that are in the way of experiencing their emotions or experiencing what's underneath that that clenched tight body, you know, or that like lifeless feeling like kind of empty numb experience that people have.
And so when I have clients who do this work alongside talk therapy or alongside working with therapists, like their growth and their recovery from whatever is going on is just accelerated. Absolutely.
So I totally agree. You know, and it's it's just been so lovely to talk with you and as well, your story and just be, you know, kind of sharing and open with everybody about the different things that you've seen and how this work has been evolving for you as a practitioner over the years. If people are curious about your practice or anyone in the San Diego area, because I know that's where you're based out of, right, and they're listening and they want to get in touch with you, how can they find you?
S: The easiest way is to just go on my website. It's StaceytherapySanDiego.com. And I'm doing telehealth. So I actually also work with people all over the state of California. Fantastic.
Yeah. And I'm starting I'm creating a program for just it's going to be like anxiety relief program. So I'm now working on that. I hope to be getting that out there soon. And it's going to be more of like a coaching program. So I'm hoping to be able to reach more people whoever wants to help and right feels that we could work well together.
A: Excellent. Yes, I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on. If anybody wants to reach out to Stacey, I'll have her website in the show notes and you can learn more about what she does, especially if you're someone who's struggling with anxiety, she might be the person for you. So yeah, thanks so much.
S: See you again.
A: Hey there, friend. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I would love to hear your thoughts. Follow me on Instagram at AimeeTakaya and send me a DM about this episode. I'd like to thank you for being part of this somatic revolution.
And if you'd like to support the podcast and help more people learn about somatics, consider leaving a review or a rating. And finally, if you'd like to have the experience of relief in your tight hips or back and learn to understand what your body is really saying to you, visit youcanfreeyoursoma.com. I can't wait to share with you what is truly possible. Bye for now.
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